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Promenade - Megathread


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7 minutes ago, Asthehills said:

The sand level is several feet higher than it was 30 years ago, which then stops the wave breaking effect of the seawall which is designed with a shape to break the waves up, but which is now buried under the sand which comes right to the level of the prom.

If you were to dig opposite the Empress by memory there are 10 or 15 steps down to the beach which are now completely buried.  I remember jumping down to the beach opposite the Palace.

We don’t need a new sea wall along there, we need to move all the sand so the wall that is already there can do what it was designed to do

Understood, now that you mention it I do recall there being functional steps too. 

I know Laxey tends to vary year to year how steep the beach is and high the pebbles come to the sea wall. 

It's a similar story to Douglas, where the cliffs behind the apartments and hotels used to mark the end of the beach.  The whole prom has been 'reclaimed'. 

14 hours ago, Gladys said:

The extension to the breakwater stopped the natural scouring of the beach as I recall.  

Were the groynes removed or just allowed to be buried? 

 

16 minutes ago, cissolt said:

I wonder what the justification for that was? And who approved it?

 

Ok this makes sense then.

What seems to have happened is the Breakwater extension as @Gladys notes has hindered the scouring of the beach by the South to North tidal flow.  It will likely have been 'bounced' further offshore by the Breakwater.  The groynes would have been placed along the beach prior to the extension to slow the drift of the sand being scoured in the longshore drift caused by this now 're-directed' current.  

No scouring = higher beach level as @Asthehills notes.  Add the groynes to this = even higher beach level.  So removing them was probably actually a good idea, although this lowering the beach height doesn't seem to have worked (yet).  It might still after a couple of big storms... 

Although bear in mind that global sea levels have risen about 8 inches since the Victorians did the prom. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

It's not a curved mile of pristine white coral sand which it should be to complement the new Promenade...

We've got palm trees though... 

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2 hours ago, monasqueen said:

At least no-one has (yet) suggested that the beach should be filled with white sand from the Sahara, like one of the beaches on Tenerife.

"5 million bags of sand arrived in the ship Gopegui. It was used to fill the beach in the first half of 1973 to create the artificial beach of white sand, which opened on 15 June 1973, although with initial problems due to red ants and scorpions that were imported along with the sand."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playa_de_Las_Teresitas

They used to do this in Bali too, certainly around Kuta. 

I think they eventually stopped it and just accepted the volcanic black sand beach.

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58 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

 

Remember the 'accessibility' steps to the beach that were commissioned by the DOI? I think they lasted three months and were the subject of much hilarity and derision on social media.

Sometimes I think we'd be best governed by no-one and just ordinary people who know about stuff like this sort it out.

This wonderful construction designed and signed off by DOI . Outstanding really. I dont even think it lasted 3 months. And funny enough they have managed without ever since I think.

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Edited by Numbnuts
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'Apparently' one of the options for Douglas Prom was building a new road on the site of the beach - it was costed at somewhere around £35m and included land reclamation and a sea wall. 

With hindsight that would have been better value! (If DOI didn't balls up the exchange rates like they did with the airport reclamation). 

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1 hour ago, Asthehills said:

The sand level is several feet higher than it was 30 years ago, which then stops the wave breaking effect of the seawall which is designed with a shape to break the waves up, but which is now buried under the sand which comes right to the level of the prom.

That bit of curved concrete once had a purpose, but no longer.

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1 hour ago, Asthehills said:

We don’t need a new sea wall along there, we need to move all the sand so the wall that is already there can do what it was designed to do

Or at least give it a go before spending millions on what could be another unnecessary scheme 🤷‍♂️

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31 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

This wonderful construction designed and signed off by DOI . Outstanding really. I dont even think it lasted 3 months. And funny enough they have managed without ever since I think.

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Which is interesting as it seems to be the opposite problem to Douglas i.e. there is less beach. 

Although personally I think that this was just a shoddy job and the stairs should have gone further down.  That section of Laxey beach the level has often been that low.   I remember when they put the footings in by the first pier probably 30 years ago and it was a similar level. 

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59 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Which is interesting as it seems to be the opposite problem to Douglas i.e. there is less beach. 

Although personally I think that this was just a shoddy job and the stairs should have gone further down.  That section of Laxey beach the level has often been that low.   I remember when they put the footings in by the first pier probably 30 years ago and it was a similar level. 

Yes level as always been low. The point of the job done by DOI was to make access to the beach easier. But apart from it all literally falling apart at the first sign of storms as Roxanne says it didnt access anything really as you see by the bottom step. Your right , it was a shoddy job designed by a idiot and got what it deserved . 

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The beach level height in Douglas has varied over the last 150 years. There are pictures of the beach height in the 1870’s and 1920’s with stones, at promenade height.

The promenade hasn’t been raised, Just widened, in all that time.

There’s lots of suggestions that the beach height causes overtopping because it raises sea level. That’s not correct. The amount of water displaced is de minimis compared to the volume of the seas and oceans.

The change in shore level is natural, it’s cyclical, and yes, the type of beach, sand or stone, and how quickly it cycles are influenced by man, with piers, harbour walls, breakwaters and groynes. And that’s not just in the harbour area, it’s up the coast. It happens every seaside resort. 

The feeling from the early 1900’s to the 1990’s was that we could make a long term difference by use of groynes and other “sea defences”. The modern view is that we can’t do much.

Overtopping has been a constant for 150 years. You’ve seen the photos of Strand Street above. It was an annual event.

The bull nose profile of the sea wall should help reduce the power of the waves by focusing them back. If the bull nose is filled in it won’t.

But go look at the original Strand ( Sand ) Street bull nose. It’s in the lane behind the Prom Methodist Church and the Christian book shop. It’s several feet higher than the 1930’s sea wall. It wasn’t a promenade sea wall, but the back wall of buildings on the east of Sand Street that backed directly onto the shore, before the hotels and boarding houses were built, and a promenade put in during the 1870’s.

The panoramic view is about 1860. No prom. 

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19 minutes ago, John Wright said:

the original Strand ( Sand ) Street

doesn't the name come from it once being the strandline - as in The Strand (Lomdon) and The House on the Strand (Daphne Du Maurier novel)

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12 minutes ago, kevster said:

doesn't the name come from it once being the strandline - as in The Strand (Lomdon) and The House on the Strand (Daphne Du Maurier novel)

It was called Sandside originally, then Sand Street.

Doesn't the name Senna have something to do with sand as well?  

The Sandside 1703. Manorial Roll.
The Sandside. 1818. 
R.C.I.P. Sandside, Sand Street.
Strand Street. 1833. Wood

(From Kneen's Placenames book)

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58 minutes ago, John Wright said:

There’s lots of suggestions that the beach height causes overtopping because it raises sea level. That’s not correct.

The following video is interesting. Note that the video is concentrating on what happens when a beach is eroded away, but in the case of Douglas the beach has been allowed to form a revetment up to the level of the recurve - so the waves roll up the revetment and straight over into the road.

 

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