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Promenade/Peel Road Megathread

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4 minutes ago, Rog said:

FWIW (and probably not very much!) The dual carriageway "Northern Distributor Road was fully opened April 17 2018 having been started in Dec 2015.  It's a tad over 12 miles long with a bunch of roundabouts en route.

It wasn't cheap at £180 ish million but that did include buying land and a bunch of roundabouts plus some rearrangement and addition to feeder roads.  It comes out at around £1,5 mil per mile from first sod cut to open to for traffic

So can someone explain why is The Prom proving to be such a big and very expensive job?

Did that road have traffic using it at the same time as it was being built?

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18 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Traffic didn't need to use the prom! 3 months work at most.

Correct they could have done it in tranches.

1. close Victoria Street to just before Marina Road. Complete the section

2. close Marina Road to Broadway. Complete section

3. close Broadway to Castle Mona. Complete section

4. close Castle Mona to Summerland. Complete section

traffic can still get to all parts of lower Douglas with any of those sections closed. Just needs a bit of planning (the point where it falls over) and proper administration (second point where it falls over)

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42 minutes ago, kevster said:

Did that road have traffic using it at the same time as it was being built?

Part of the time yes.  Being dual carriageway at times during construction one carriageway was open early in order to improve overall efficiency.  

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1 hour ago, Rog said:

FWIW (and probably not very much!) The dual carriageway "Northern Distributor Road was fully opened April 17 2018 having been started in Dec 2015.  It's a tad over 12 miles long with a bunch of roundabouts en route.

It wasn't cheap at £180 ish million but that did include buying land and a bunch of roundabouts plus some rearrangement and addition to feeder roads.  It comes out at around £1,5 mil per mile from first sod cut to open to for traffic

So can someone explain why is The Prom proving to be such a big and very expensive job?

Don't you mean £15 million per mile? The Prom is about 1.5 miles so that works out at about £22.5 million, which is roundabout what the initial bugdet was.

And I'm being quite generous here as the Prom is more like 2 miles which puts the comparison costs at £30 million for the Prom.

Edited by yootalkin2me
Added text

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6 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Don't you mean £15 million per mile? The Prom is about 1.5 miles so that works out at about £22.5 million, which is roundabout what the initial bugdet was.

And I'm being quite generous here as the Prom is more like 2 miles which puts the comparison costs at £30 million for the Prom.

Yes the "," was definitely a typo.  However when it comes to elapsed time and amount of work per mile the example that I quoted involved very much more hands on work.

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1 hour ago, Rog said:

So can someone explain why is The Prom proving to be such a big and very expensive job?

The short answer is that it was meant to be.  The DoI needs big projects to justify the salaries and positions of those in charge.  If there is not any need they have to be invented.  With no scope to build new roads (like the one you describe)[1] old ones have to be reconstructed instead.  Even if there is no actual case for it, one will be dreamt up, as it was with the runway extension.

[1]  Edited to add it's not really fair to compare new build and even extensive reconstruction like this (though some are saying what's being done is actually less extensive than claimed), as there are the problem of dealing with existing services and so on, though there are also different feature with a new build.

Edited by Roger Mexico
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Kirkmichael by pass would have been an excellent project and wouldn't have buggered up the traffic while they messed up building it. Instead they are going to make an almighty mess of the existing road and it still won't work properly.

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According to Auto Express in 2018 the HS2 was going to cost in the region of £403m per mile. The cost of constructing a road for driveable and driverless cars would be in the region of £10m per mile. Even allowing for materials increasing in price, it is hard to believe it would now cost £15m per mile. I believe these figures based on starting from scratch. The prom is approximately 1.75 miles long. What were the latest figures bandied by the Dept of Idiots?

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44 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The short answer is that it was meant to be.  The DoI needs big projects to justify the salaries and positions of those in charge.  If there is not any need they have to be invented.  With no scope to build new roads (like the one you describe)[1] old ones have to be reconstructed instead.  Even if there is no actual case for it, one will be dreamt up, as it was with the runway extension.

[1]  Edited to add it's not really fair to compare new build and even extensive reconstruction like this (though some are saying what's being done is actually less extensive than claimed), as there are the problem of dealing with existing services and so on, though there are also different feature with a new build.

Your point about existing services is well made but surely a survey was conducted as part of the initial preparation work?  Also there are quite a lot of services that had to be negotiated in the building of the because of the number of radial roads serving outer farms and villages. So not a true 1 : 1 comparison but at the same time within site of the issue.  Mind you over here the work gangs were constantly working balls out.  Shovel supporters there were non.

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1 hour ago, yootalkin2me said:

Don't you mean £15 million per mile? The Prom is about 1.5 miles so that works out at about £22.5 million, which is roundabout what the initial bugdet was.

And I'm being quite generous here as the Prom is more like 2 miles which puts the comparison costs at £30 million for the Prom.

Agree with your figures however it's totally clear that the job should be far further on , over 8 months behind in a 2 year alleged contract . It's going up far more than the estimated 25million I'm sure . Of that 4 million is apparently to cover the several lots of plans ! My guess it will be at least 30 million by the time it's finished . 

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2 hours ago, Rog said:

FWIW (and probably not very much!) The dual carriageway "Northern Distributor Road was fully opened April 17 2018 having been started in Dec 2015.  It's a tad over 12 miles long with a bunch of roundabouts en route.

It wasn't cheap at £180 ish million but that did include buying land and a bunch of roundabouts plus some rearrangement and addition to feeder roads.  It comes out at around £1,5 mil per mile from first sod cut to open to for traffic

So can someone explain why is The Prom proving to be such a big and very expensive job?

Because it's the Isle of man....... Where you can!

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10 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Agree with your figures however it's totally clear that the job should be far further on , over 8 months behind in a 2 year alleged contract . It's going up far more than the estimated 25million I'm sure . Of that 4 million is apparently to cover the several lots of plans ! My guess it will be at least 30 million by the time it's finished . 

Several lots of plans for £4 million? Who is drawing them? Monet?

i thought they were using an in house team?

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1 hour ago, Neil Down said:

Correct they could have done it in tranches.

1. close Victoria Street to just before Marina Road. Complete the section

2. close Marina Road to Broadway. Complete section

3. close Broadway to Castle Mona. Complete section

4. close Castle Mona to Summerland. Complete section

traffic can still get to all parts of lower Douglas with any of those sections closed. Just needs a bit of planning (the point where it falls over) and proper administration (second point where it falls over)

That's what I said pages and pages back. Right now we have nothing to show for it except lots of pissed off businesses.

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10 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

That's what I said pages and pages back. Right now we have nothing to show for it except lots of pissed off businesses.

Same here and was told not to be so stupid by Dilli!

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