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Promenade/Peel Road Megathread

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14 minutes ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

Just when you thought it couldn't become anymore of a clusterfuck, the Department of Fucking-up Everything gets involved! 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/enterprise-to-get-involved-in-prom-works/

OMG just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse they’re sending Skelly in to doubly fuck it up! 

You couldn’t make it up. 

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22 minutes ago, MrPB said:

OMG just when you thought it couldn’t get any worse they’re sending Skelly in to doubly fuck it up! 

You couldn’t make it up. 

Now if only they could engage Gawne as a consultant...

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On 4/25/2018 at 9:19 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Sorry, but I am predicting the closure of 25+ businesses in lower Douglas by the time they finish the promenade -  (businesses on the main shopping streets and promenade itself blaming the works). This will cause business carnage.

 

Sorry, but I am predicting the closure of 25+ businesses in lower Douglas by the time they finish the promenade -  (businesses on the main shopping streets and promenade itself blaming the works). This will cause business carnage.

 

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Posted (edited)

.

Edited by gettafa

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Well the pace has certainly picked up on the tram lines now. They are flying along. 

I note they have left a bit in the middle though. It's almost as though they don't want the horse trams going any further this summer. 

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2 hours ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

Well the pace has certainly picked up on the tram lines now. They are flying along. 

I note they have left a bit in the middle though. It's almost as though they don't want the horse trams going any further this summer. 

Shame they couldn't leave it forever! 

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10 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:
12 hours ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

Well the pace has certainly picked up on the tram lines now. They are flying along. 

I note they have left a bit in the middle though. It's almost as though they don't want the horse trams going any further this summer. 

 

supposed to be running to the Palace by festival of motorcycles /MGP etc

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Posted (edited)

There's a lot of speculation, which is needless. Actually the phrase is 'fucking needless'. 

It's a big flat road with some tram lines running along it - what is the problem?

There should be a programme of works, issued at the beginning of the project for all to see. Yes there is always the ever ready excuse of unforeseen circumstances ( 'management incompetence' for one) but the programme should be updated when and as events happen.

Businesses, well anyone who uses the Promenade,  need to know exactly what is going on and when. 

Manx Radio: Small business has lost business, and sleep, over prom works

 

Edited by gettafa

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On 7/26/2019 at 8:26 AM, Neil Down said:

Now if only they could engage Gawne as a consultant...

Well, the money is there and it needs spending, so that may be an option yet.

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On 7/26/2019 at 7:47 AM, foxdaleliberationfront said:

Just when you thought it couldn't become anymore of a clusterfuck, the Department of Fucking-up Everything gets involved! 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/enterprise-to-get-involved-in-prom-works/

 

And the brilliant David Christian says the rates money is in his silo and he's not giving any of it back!! 

 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/govt-should-compensate-prom-businesses-not-council/

 

Just another argument in favour of scrapping local authorities and centralising the few essential services they provide! 

It is not up to the Borough Council whether rate rebates are made, it is up to the Rent and Rating Appeal Commission surely?

Have any domestic house holders applied for a reduction? Thinking of doing so myself.

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23 minutes ago, Oh Mona said:

It is not up to the Borough Council whether rate rebates are made, it is up to the Rent and Rating Appeal Commission surely?

Have any domestic house holders applied for a reduction? Thinking of doing so myself.

You actually need to apply to the Treasury Valuations Office in the first instance:

Quote

Where external factors such as immediate adjacent building works or significant flooding for example impact on the potential rental value of the property the gross value a ratepayer can contact the Treasury Valuations Office (tel. 685658) to ask to have their property revalued.

It's only if you're not satisfied with the response that you can then appeal to the Rent and Rating Appeal Commissioners

Incidentally, even by the standards of IOMG IT, that is a seriously unhelpful bit of design.  You have to open up the right concertina, download a Word document, copy link addresses from that - and then all you end up with is the full legislation.  There's no non-legal advice (and no legal aid) and everything is confused by the Tribunal covering three different areas (rates; rents; property charges).  A couple of years ago Chris Thomas was complaining that people weren't using it.  Can't think why.

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

You actually need to apply to the Treasury Valuations Office in the first instance:

It's only if you're not satisfied with the response that you can then appeal to the Rent and Rating Appeal Commissioners

Incidentally, even by the standards of IOMG IT, that is a seriously unhelpful bit of design.  You have to open up the right concertina, download a Word document, copy link addresses from that - and then all you end up with is the full legislation.  There's no non-legal advice (and no legal aid) and everything is confused by the Tribunal covering three different areas (rates; rents; property charges).  A couple of years ago Chris Thomas was complaining that people weren't using it.  Can't think why.

As recently retired chair of the R&RAC I can perhaps cast some light.

Most cases are dealt with at Valuation Office level, by agreement. So only a few filter through to hearing.

Given that the last Rates revaluation was way back in 1971 most valuations have been fixed for a couple of generations, not much to challenge apart from new build, extensions, or reduction applications due to external circumstances, such as road works or building next door.

About a third of cases were end of the line appeals from disgruntled neighbours who had fought planning at all stages and, having lost, and the new house next door still offending them, tried to get a rates reduction.

As for it being a rag, tag and bobtail jurisdiction, yes, and no. As rates are a property tax based on the notional  rental value ( Net Rateable Value or NRV) of an annual tenancy of the property in 1971 it makes sense for the tribunal to also deal with fair rents and service charges. They’re intimately related and require the same skill and knowledge set.

Of course linking rates to 1971 rental values is Gilbertian topsy turvydom of the worst order. I’m not sure that capital value bands fare any better. Rates income pays for local services. I’m sure that a charge based on per head for centralised services, like street lighting, street cleaning, church yard,  and based on consumption for water, sewage, waste disposal, etc, isn’t outside the realms of being calculated.

It might be fairer and rebates for the elderly and low income need introducing.

That leaves us with temporary reductions in case of works nearby. It’ll be much harder to get a reduction based on capital reduction across bands because the road is dug up for a few months, than it currently is to get a reduction in NRV.

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New news in tonight's Indy (P3) on the promenade front.

Project Manager Keith Podmore explains that the excavations are not as deep as people were expecting as there are now no voids found during EITHER surveys OR the current works (my caps).

It's all to do with deteriorating concrete slabs beneath the existing road surface apparently.

So all the previous project justification about voids and the foundations being washed away is/was clearly bollocks then?

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7 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

New news in tonight's Indy (P3) on the promenade front.

Project Manager Keith Podmore explains that the excavations are not as deep as people were expecting as there are now no voids found during EITHER surveys OR the current works (my caps).

It's all to do with deteriorating concrete slabs beneath the existing road surface apparently.

So all the previous project justification about voids and the foundations being washed away is/was clearly bollocks then?

So £25 million that didn't need to be spent.

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Posted (edited)

We were all told that a double decker bus could suddenly fall into a hole unless we spent x gazillion pound to rebuild everything with gold and silver embellishments.  

Heads should roll 

Edited by NoTail

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