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The Phantom

Mt Murray / Alex Inn

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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2019 at 12:01 PM, dilligaf said:

Jakey Hogg. Ex teacher 

He was a pleasant and interesting bloke. What did he teach? (Just in case it was history or something, but in any case he always spoke sense and his hypothesis regarding the gate houses had logic).

Edited by gettafa

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2 hours ago, gettafa said:

Lightning fast to doubt that John. Why do you doubt, and more than much? 

A reasonable and intelligent approach might be to look at the alternate hypothesis and provide reasoning to doubt it. 

Now now,never argue with a well rounded individual

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3 hours ago, gettafa said:

Lightning fast to doubt that John. Why do you doubt, and more than much? 

A reasonable and intelligent approach might be to look at the alternate hypothesis and provide reasoning to doubt it. 

OK, Georgian gate houses, to large estates on Island, were usually

1. Square floor plan

2. Single story, with an attic floor, possibly, for additional sleeping.

However modified or extended, they are neither.

Why would you have two gate houses so far apart, on a public road, at either side. Not controlling entrance or access? 

We know where the “big house” was. The gate house would have been at the entrance to that, off the road. One is on the wrong side. For the one on the correct side where did the drive run? Parallel to the public road. For so long? Why?

We know where the gatehouse was. Mount Murray Lodge.

Both those buildings are traditional Manx artisanal dwellings. Oblong. Not Square. Probably originally a single story cottage. Room on each side of a central entrance. Then, some time in c19 second storey added.

QED.

They may well have been buildings constructed for estate workers. But there was a large model farm behind the “big house” with accommodation for animals, store for produce, and accommodation for workers, both on the farm estate, and in the house.

Next two photos are plans showing the extent of Mount Murray.

One is for Braddan and the other for Santon. Hard to interpret, but the best I can find. 

Both have north at the bottom.

The buildings top left by the road, on plan 93 are the Forge. The Mount Murray Estate mill.

463C8437-E53D-4146-830F-E094A4CFB7EF.png

 

20EC9BEB-AE4E-42BC-B605-6997E75078C6.png

41F6A2A5-1803-4AC3-90B0-D3C46F0DF7E8.thumb.png.578bb7ef526e2ed5ee0335db1b9110a5.png41F6A2A5-1803-4AC3-90B0-D3C46F0DF7E8.thumb.png.578bb7ef526e2ed5ee0335db1b9110a5.png

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4 hours ago, gettafa said:
On ‎4‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 12:01 PM, dilligaf said:

Jakey Hogg. Ex teacher 

He was a pleasant and interesting bloke. What did he teach? (Just in case it was history or something, but in any case he always spoke sense and his hypothesis regarding the gate houses had logic).

If my memory serves, he taught Chemistry.

Nice bloke until you crossed him, then it was the cane.

His 5 feet  long arms could certainly whip that cane across your arse.

Spoke with him many times in his little shop after he retired and was really nice.

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2 hours ago, dilligaf said:

If my memory serves, he taught Chemistry.

Nice bloke until you crossed him, then it was the cane.

His 5 feet  long arms could certainly whip that cane across your arse.

Spoke with him many times in his little shop after he retired and was really nice.

Sounds like you had some real chemistry with that man, did he take your cherry?

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7 minutes ago, CharlieBrown said:
2 hours ago, dilligaf said:

If my memory serves, he taught Chemistry.

Nice bloke until you crossed him, then it was the cane.

His 5 feet  long arms could certainly whip that cane across your arse.

Spoke with him many times in his little shop after he retired and was really nice.

Sounds like you had some real chemistry with that man, did he take your cherry?

I hope you're not trying to groom me  :o

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16 hours ago, gettafa said:

Lightning fast to doubt that John. Why do you doubt, and more than much? 

A reasonable and intelligent approach might be to look at the alternate hypothesis and provide reasoning to doubt it. 

You have to be careful with John, he even argues with the idiot W2

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On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 1:45 PM, The Phantom said:

I'm the process of falling down the rabbit hole doing a bit of research on the history of Mt Murray (pre village in the mist).  

Where was Ashole?  Is this the name of the area before Mount Murray was built?

I did try to see whether anything still exists of some form of monument that was built by Wadsworth Busk.  I presumed it was on the hill, on the east side.  I did find a mound but was not sure if this was a bronze age tumulus or whether it was all that was left of the monument.  Would you know anything about it?

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

Where was Ashole?  Is this the name of the area before Mount Murray was built?

I did try to see whether anything still exists of some form of monument that was built by Wadsworth Busk.  I presumed it was on the hill, on the east side.  I did find a mound but was not sure if this was a bronze age tumulus or whether it was all that was left of the monument.  Would you know anything about it?

 

 

 

 

Holt Hill (Ais Holt) is the original name of the hill west of the current hotel.  It is the one that has Chibbanagh  plantation on top of. 

The Murray Family (Dukes of Athol) purchased the land, hence became Mt Murray.

I don't know if there is any archaeology up that way.

The 5th century graveyard and Keeil if that's what you were referring to, is East of the hotel on next to Speke Lane.  There is a standing stone there now, but i believe this isn't original and was just placed there as a marker.  It was excavated by Time Team in 2007.  I did find a link to the dig report, but seems to be broken now and the pdf is too big to attach. 

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Although Ais Holt might also be effectively the top of Richmond Hill.

I need to dig out an ordnance survey map and see what it says are the hill names. 

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28 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Holt Hill (Ais Holt) is the original name of the hill west of the current hotel.  It is the one that has Chibbanagh  plantation on top of. 

I thought it might have been the southern side of the hill.

The monument site:

"A large mound on the top of the hill above Mount Murray and overlooking Douglas Bay is recent, and was erected about 1812 [? 1782], by Sir Wadsworth Busk, Attorney-General, to commemorate the recovery of King George III from illness. At a Triangulation mark, 728. 4. O.S. XIII/9   

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/lma1930/sn.htm

If I had the right spot then another source said it was just a tumulus.  I was a bit confused.

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Posted (edited)

 

On 4/7/2019 at 12:01 PM, dilligaf said:

Jakey Hogg. Ex teacher 

It looks as if Jakey was right, his house was indeed at the entrance to Mount Murray estate and likely a gatehouse. The other house (not the one I referenced previously) was called a Lodge on older maps, was at the edge of the Mount Murray estate on Richmond Hill but was demolished for  road widening.

(my colouring, yellow - Mount Murray estate)

2090532116_xiiiRichmoindHilllodge01.thumb.jpg.b35a0e0637169139e408ab1f1552ada2.jpg

 

Edited by gettafa

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