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Go back to sleep Barrie. It was just a dream.

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My twopennyworth - in a free society there is a "contract" between the state  and the individual.  Part of that contract is that there is openness of state actions, that is one of the reasons that most legal processes such as a trial are carried out in public.  In return  individuals must abide by the law.  

Yet , we have had several unspecified events over the past week or so, most of them seeming to be serious.  But no information from the police.  Very odd. 

Imagine if there was a lock down of information from, say, the Yorkshire Ripper crimes, the Manchester bombing, the London Bridge terrorist attack? Unconscionable isn't it?

That is not to say that the information released should prejudice either the investigation or any resulting trial, but  why is information being heavily censored?

If a crime has been committed, it is a crime against every person here-  that is, apparently, why the state prosecutes.

I want to know what has happened.  Why not? I am a citizen who fulfills my side of the contract  so fulfill yours. This not a police state, but an open democracy  apparently.

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Posted (edited)

Why can't the Police just say that they are investigating a "serious assault" and leave it there.?

Or just say they can't find enough evidence to say the jumper was pushed or thrown from a window.

Just a tit- bit would be enough to stop us all wondering, instead of being treated like babies.

I have always been a big supporter of our local Police, but sometimes I do wonder if they are alienating a huge chunk of society with this wall of silence.

Edited by dilligaf
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We don't  deserve a "tit bit", but an explanation as to what has happened to cause the various unusual (for the IOM) actions.  I really don't want to hear the detail but an open commentary would be helpful.

You cannot blame the local news purveyors - all they can report is what is fed to them.  But really,  several apparently serious incidents over the past few weeks and we do not know what those incidents may have been?  Then  there is an appeal for any information - about what you have to ask, what could have happened  how could I help and what do I know that is relevant?

Shocking disregard for that implied understanding between the citizen and the state.

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6 hours ago, Gladys said:

We don't  deserve a "tit bit", but an explanation as to what has happened to cause the various unusual (for the IOM) actions.  I really don't want to hear the detail but an open commentary would be helpful.

You cannot blame the local news purveyors - all they can report is what is fed to them.  But really,  several apparently serious incidents over the past few weeks and we do not know what those incidents may have been?  Then  there is an appeal for any information - about what you have to ask, what could have happened  how could I help and what do I know that is relevant?

Shocking disregard for that implied understanding between the citizen and the state.

One of the problems is that local journalists don’t probe and push far enough, and because of lack of access to legal advice they will generally only print what they are told. And that is the same whether it is stuff churned out by the police, or even more so, government.

From the cops side, nothing will change until the man at the top decrees it will change. He has already said that the police will “refresh” their approach to social media, so maybe that will be next. Notwithstanding I really enjoyed the PR and press side of my job, I lobbied for a long time for a dedicated press officer, working as a satellite to the cabinet office ones. There is more than enough good and bad news stories to support one.

Overall, a lot will come down to the approach of individual investigating officers, and who is in the control room on a particular shift. 

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7 hours ago, Gladys said:

My twopennyworth - in a free society there is a "contract" between the state  and the individual.  Part of that contract is that there is openness of state actions,

Meanwhile,back on planet Earth.

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90BB1DA5-E897-4423-A452-517C5880AD91.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Gladys said:

My twopennyworth - in a free society there is a "contract" between the state  and the individual.  Part of that contract is that there is openness of state actions, that is one of the reasons that most legal processes such as a trial are carried out in public. 

The trial carried out in public is notional only. This is the Isle of Man we're talking about. ( eg I know members of the public who have entered a court's public gallery only to have the deemster hurriedly adjourn. Multiple occasions)

They wouldn't have got away with it in Esther's day. Which brings me nicely to:

 

2 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

One of the problems is that local journalists don’t probe and push far enough, and because of lack of access to legal advice they will generally only print what they are told. And that is the same whether it is stuff churned out by the police, or even more so, government.

From the cops side, nothing will change until the man at the top decrees it will change. He has already said that the police will “refresh” their approach to social media, so maybe that will be next. Notwithstanding I really enjoyed the PR and press side of my job, I lobbied for a long time for a dedicated press officer, working as a satellite to the cabinet office ones. There is more than enough good and bad news stories to support one.

Overall, a lot will come down to the approach of individual investigating officers, and who is in the control room on a particular shift. 

And I would suggest, that the problem here may well be that we have our first local Chief Constable rather than someone brought in from the UK. 

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14 hours ago, x-in-man said:

SARDA dogs can sniff out dead bodies.  Not many Police search dogs can do that.

 

 

send them into tinpot........

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15 hours ago, John Wright said:

Yes. And there are all sorts of things that are neither newsworthy or that the police need to pass on. Especially if there’s no danger.

Just think to Back Marina Road/Sefton. 

Man fell out of window, died. No suspicious circumstances. That was end result.

Then look at all the speculation, supposition, making things up, the arrest of 6 people, etc.

Theres a responsibility not to over egg.

It’s the IoM. You can be sure that if there had been a violent death, serious injury, or multi arrests, it’d be all over social media in 20 contradicting untrue versions. And if it was multi arrests I’d have received a text as I’m still on the duty advocate panel. I haven’t. But that may be down to me being at sea with no phone signal.

 

Our local "news" outlets haven't even confirmed that he fell. But BBC have : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-47884853

Also no-one reporting on the farce of the old bill arresting a load of people with SFA to do with it, then having to release them all without charge. Embarrassing, "just-in-case" arrests.

No wonder the rumourmill goes mental when no information is given. As others have commented here, if this was in the UK we would know what had happened, look at this example. Just A few hours later and the public are given all the facts. Who died and gave our old bill so much power to keep us all in the dark? Or are we in North Korea?

 

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45 minutes ago, Butterflies said:

 

Also no-one reporting on the farce of the old bill arresting a load of people with SFA to do with it,

Do you know that?

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16 hours ago, John Wright said:

But that may be down to me being at sea with no phone signal.

Good internet connection though.

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1 hour ago, Butterflies said:

Also no-one reporting on the farce of the old bill arresting a load of people with SFA to do with it, then having to release them all without charge. Embarrassing, "just-in-case" arrests.

Which bit is embarrassing? The bit about reporting (that WAS done), arresting six people (obviously deemed as necessary at the time, due to whatever circumstances) or SFA to do with it (could’ve been associates of the deceased etc, but given they’ve all been released with no further action to be taken, I’d presume it’s true that they had nothing to do with the tragic incident).

say for examples sake they were all drinking in a room with the deceased (I haven’t a clue whether this actually WAS the case). Fella tragically falls out, drunk. People see him fall/see him on the pavement and call cops. Cops see where he’s fallen from, or else associates happen to stumble down to see if he’s alright. Being drunk, incoherent etc, do you think it would be correct for the cops to let them all sober up and tell them all to come by the police station at a later time of their choosing to ask what happened, or do you think it might’ve been erring on the correct side of necessity and proportionality that they were detained there and then, “just in case” it WAS a murder, and vital evidence might have been lost if they hadn’t? What would you have done in that situation? I’m guessing the former, because simply from looking at the body on the floor, you’d have known straight off that it wasn’t foul play, right, Sherlock? 

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2 hours ago, gettafa said:

The trial carried out in public is notional only. This is the Isle of Man we're talking about. ( eg I know members of the public who have entered a court's public gallery only to have the deemster hurriedly adjourn. Multiple occasions)

They wouldn't have got away with it in Esther's day. Which brings me nicely to:

 

And I would suggest, that the problem here may well be that we have our first local Chief Constable rather than someone brought in from the UK. 

In Gary's defence, I don't think things have really been much different over the years. Even during my time, I had to chase SIO's for releases even for fatal and serious collisions. Whereas there is the public interest test for some stuff, in others there is a bona fide requirement to meet public information needs - i.e. what the public will find interesting. How safe our roads are is a case in point. What an 'incident' actually is in substance is another. Rather than appearing to be some Roswell style cover up, I believe the public are much more reassured by responses that say; 'We had to cordon off the area because there was a dangerous individual with a machete/ we had found someone with injuries that we couldn't explain/ there was a really bad crash that we had to thoroughly investigate* and we were all over it, 'cos we keep people safe - sorry for any inconvenience. 

As I said earlier,, often this is the last on the list because the bobbies are having to deal with everything else at the same time. When there was a big joint operation a few years ago with the National Crime Agency, HMRC and other forces, I was the only bobby on the press cadre - everyone else has dedicated resources. 

So it is what it is. the question I suppose is whether the public would rather see 30 grand spent on a dedicated press officer, or have another bobby patrolling the streets?

 

 

 

*delete as applicable

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Good post Derek, but you blew it with your last sentence.

It's one of the stock answers with IoM Gov and it's agencies.

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