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10 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Means testing makes sense I suppose. A personal question so don’t answer if you don’t want to. But do you know how do they manage the infection risk with people who are immuno compromised with all the required travel? I’d be worried traveling if I had something like leukemia as it seems to be that chemo etc knocks the hell out of people and surely the infection risks are much higher than a UK person just getting in the car and driving there with all the public travel and exposure to recirculated air on plans etc. Do they advise any extra precautions due to the extra traveling required? 

Yes, it’s a risk. No, nothing recommended. But by end of 11 week induction I had zero detectable disease and my numbers were climbing. The next 7 months were just to be sure there were no lurking cells. I had blood product transfusions.

We always joked that it wasn’t going to be the Leukaemia or chemo that killed me, but the travel. December through to end of March. Being left stranded on the tarmac because someone had forgotten the ambulift or wheelchair, and it’s snowing, raining, blowing a hoolie.

Face masks don’t really work. The airborne bacteria or viruses pass through the weave. To be effective everyone else would have to wear. They do catch the bigger globules when someone sneezes.

Im glad I didn’t need a bone marrow transplant. Just 99 doses of Arsenic based chemo.

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4 hours ago, John Wright said:

If the IoM is to offer comprehensive health care it is too small to offer every speciality or complex, cutting edge surgery or treatment.

Without assistance with fares and accommodation many people would be unable to afford treatment and be in serious pain and discomfort. Some would die. There’s a huge cost there.

Does it outweigh flights, boats and a contribution to essential stop over costs?

Does it save on other costs?

Im pretty sure it does.

I think the latest report on our health and social care service will address this issue more effectively? If, and it is a big 'if', government have the balls to tackle each area of the service, I think we will find a lot less specialisation at Nobles, better agreements with and levels of service from UK hospitals, we actually pay for a much better service than we get as we pay private rates for NHS service!

I believe that many more people will be travelling to the UK for treatment, therefore a much better and cost effective method of transporting and housing patients will need to be found. 

Nobles needs to work hand in hand with the UK hospitals more, I have to have an MRI scan before an appointment, the hospital in Liverpool was looking into having it done on the IoM to save two trips over, it seems that the waiting list for an MRI on the island is too long! Issues such as this need to be sorted out. 

I think we are hamstrung by the DHSS empire, If government can get the DHSS on side, take some of their responsibility and policy making powers away, we may be on to a winner!    

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20 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Thanks. I feel very sorry for some of the people you see boarding especially the Liverpool or Manchester flights as many are clearly going away for chemo (no hair, gaunt, white as a sheet etc) and it’s always stuck me as a huge infection risk if you end up having to do that. I just wondered if people were at extra risk because we can’t provide services here that you’d get locally in the UK. Yes I’m sure all the extra travel takes it out of you in the end. Thanks. 

It’s quite often radiotherapy which we really couldn’t deliver economically on Island. Or induction courses. Lots does get delivered at Nobles.

My aunt spent nearly 6 months in Clatterbridge with a brain tumour, then another 6 on old ward 20. She was never told it was terminal. Never got the chance to plan a bucket list. 

I don't believe in bucket lists. But I have got a second chance at life list that I’m working through and continually adding to.

Thats why today I’m sailing past Usshant on my way to Bilbao. 

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4 minutes ago, Max Power said:

we actually pay for a much better service than we get as we pay private rates for NHS service! 

Only if patients are being sent somewhere with private services. Royal Liverpool, Alderhey, Broadgreen, Aintree, Clatterbridge don’t do private and DHSC pays the English NHS recognised rate for the job.

DHSC did buy in hip and knee replacements privately to get rid of a backlog. Most are done at Nobles now.

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I believe that the Island is long overdue an open (public) debate on its health services. It is also my personal opinion (no more) that there should be more public oversight of the hospitals' activities (e.g. A non-Executive public oversight board).

I say the above not as a criticism of the existing structure, but because day after day I see claims and counter-claims regarding the service that are quite simply built on misunderstandings and falsehoods - sometimes these these misunderstandings are simply based on lack of knowledge (understandable) and sometimes it suits some people with particular agendas to allow these falsehoods to ferment as it suits their own particular case.

The issues surrounding private practice and Consultant pay are misunderstood to the extent that what is currently being postulated as the truth, is so far from reality that it risks becoming an accepted falsehood that in turn will badly damage the service. The reality is far from what you read in the local media.

Tynwald currently believes that we are 'paying private rates for NHS  service' - but the reporting of the actual situation is distorted to an incredible degree simply to produce a picture that suits some but is based on no more that a few exceptional services that distort the overall picture.

In a similar vein, the idea that Clatterbridge and the remaining North West services do not do private is simply incorrect. Clatterbridge clinic is 50% owned by Mater (An Irish private company), operates on 10 different sites, and has looked into the provision of private practice here on the Island (quite recently in fact). It provides private practice throughout the world including Africa, Australia and New Zealand to name but a few.

Waiting times for routine MRI scans is longer than in many places in the UK - But shorter than some as well. The working hours of MRI scanners are determined by the funding for staff outside of normal hours i.e A management rather than a clinical decision.

There is no waiting list for urgent CT scans - you will get one 24 hours a day / 7 days a week without any wait if your need is urgent rather than routine.

There is a great deal of improvement that can be achieved in any NHS type service, but lack of information, gossip and rumour do not provide a sound base for future service planning. 

I genuinely believe that Nobles would benefit from more openness and transparency - I think that service is in many cases far better than its local media image suggests - that's why I suggest a public body to communicate the actual facts rather than rumour and gossip so that we can have a sensible adult discussion that arrives at the best compromise between the needs of patients, staff, Government and the taxpayer. A compromise it will always be, but a fact based compromise beats a rumour-based compromise.

It goes without saying that those waiting for treatment will always be concerned about availability, and I have every sympathy with those people having waited for serious stuff myself. But nobodies needs are best met by misunderstandings - we need a factual, open discussion.

Edited by Manximus Aururaneus
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Pretty much the way I see it Manximus, if the DHSS is the policymaker and goal setter for its own activities, we can hardly expect anything to change!

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1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

I believe that the Island is long overdue an open (public) debate on its health services. It is also my personal opinion (no more) that there should be more public oversight of the hospitals' activities (e.g. A non-Executive public oversight board).

I say the above not as a criticism of the existing structure, but because day after day I see claims and counter-claims regarding the service that are quite simply built on misunderstandings and falsehoods - sometimes these these misunderstandings are simply based on lack of knowledge (understandable) and sometimes it suits some people with particular agendas to allow these falsehoods to ferment as it suits their own particular case.

The issues surrounding private practice and Consultant pay are misunderstood to the extent that what is currently being postulated as the truth, is so far from reality that it risks becoming an accepted falsehood that in turn will badly damage the service. The reality is far from what you read in the local media.

Tynwald currently believes that we are 'paying private rates for NHS  service' - but the reporting of the actual situation is distorted to an incredible degree simply to produce a picture that suits some but is based on no more that a few exceptional services that distort the overall picture.

In a similar vein, the idea that Clatterbridge and the remaining North West services do not do private is simply incorrect. Clatterbridge clinic is 50% owned by Mater (An Irish private company), operates on 10 different sites, and has looked into the provision of private practice here on the Island (quite recently in fact). It provides private practice throughout the world including Africa, Australia and New Zealand to name but a few.

Waiting times for routine MRI scans is longer than in many places in the UK - But shorter than some as well. The working hours of MRI scanners are determined by the funding for staff outside of normal hours i.e A management rather than a clinical decision.

There is no waiting list for urgent CT scans - you will get one 24 hours a day / 7 days a week without any wait if your need is urgent rather than routine.

There is a great deal of improvement that can be achieved in any NHS type service, but lack of information, gossip and rumour do not provide a sound base for future service planning. 

I genuinely believe that Nobles would benefit from more openness and transparency - I think that service is in many cases far better than its local media image suggests - that's why I suggest a public body to communicate the actual facts rather than rumour and gossip so that we can have a sensible adult discussion that arrives at the best compromise between the needs of patients, staff, Government and the taxpayer. A compromise it will always be, but a fact based compromise beats a rumour-based compromise.

It goes without saying that those waiting for treatment will always be concerned about availability, and I have every sympathy with those people having waited for serious stuff myself. But nobodies needs are best met by misunderstandings - we need a factual, open discussion.

Couldn’t agree more - an open dialogue with the public (and not politicians) on what our health service should deliver within the current budget (or whether an increase in taxes is required so we can offer more) is needed ASAP. 

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1 hour ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

I believe that the Island is long overdue an open (public) debate on its health services. It is also my personal opinion (no more) that there should be more public oversight of the hospitals' activities (e.g. A non-Executive public oversight board).

I say the above not as a criticism of the existing structure, but because day after day I see claims and counter-claims regarding the service that are quite simply built on misunderstandings and falsehoods - sometimes these these misunderstandings are simply based on lack of knowledge (understandable) and sometimes it suits some people with particular agendas to allow these falsehoods to ferment as it suits their own particular case.

The issues surrounding private practice and Consultant pay are misunderstood to the extent that what is currently being postulated as the truth, is so far from reality that it risks becoming an accepted falsehood that in turn will badly damage the service. The reality is far from what you read in the local media.

Tynwald currently believes that we are 'paying private rates for NHS  service' - but the reporting of the actual situation is distorted to an incredible degree simply to produce a picture that suits some but is based on no more that a few exceptional services that distort the overall picture.

In a similar vein, the idea that Clatterbridge and the remaining North West services do not do private is simply incorrect. Clatterbridge clinic is 50% owned by Mater (An Irish private company), operates on 10 different sites, and has looked into the provision of private practice here on the Island (quite recently in fact). It provides private practice throughout the world including Africa, Australia and New Zealand to name but a few.

Waiting times for routine MRI scans is longer than in many places in the UK - But shorter than some as well. The working hours of MRI scanners are determined by the funding for staff outside of normal hours i.e A management rather than a clinical decision.

There is no waiting list for urgent CT scans - you will get one 24 hours a day / 7 days a week without any wait if your need is urgent rather than routine.

There is a great deal of improvement that can be achieved in any NHS type service, but lack of information, gossip and rumour do not provide a sound base for future service planning. 

I genuinely believe that Nobles would benefit from more openness and transparency - I think that service is in many cases far better than its local media image suggests - that's why I suggest a public body to communicate the actual facts rather than rumour and gossip so that we can have a sensible adult discussion that arrives at the best compromise between the needs of patients, staff, Government and the taxpayer. A compromise it will always be, but a fact based compromise beats a rumour-based compromise.

It goes without saying that those waiting for treatment will always be concerned about availability, and I have every sympathy with those people having waited for serious stuff myself. But nobodies needs are best met by misunderstandings - we need a factual, open discussion.

Based on the interim report produced by Jonathan Michaels (January) these, including the governance Board, are the kind of topic he’ll be addressing in his final report, due next month. I suspect that his report may well be considered “radical” and that many of his recommendations will be at risk of falling prey to political cowardice.

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4 hours ago, John Wright said:

Only if patients are being sent somewhere with private services. Royal Liverpool, Alderhey, Broadgreen, Aintree, Clatterbridge don’t do private and DHSC pays the English NHS recognised rate for the job.

DHSC did buy in hip and knee replacements privately to get rid of a backlog. Most are done at Nobles now.

And very well indeed! I still marvel at the job they did with mine. Practically a cyborg!

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3 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

In a similar vein, the idea that Clatterbridge and the remaining North West services do not do private is simply incorrect. Clatterbridge clinic is 50% owned by Mater (An Irish private company), operates on 10 different sites, and has looked into the provision of private practice here on the Island (quite recently in fact). It provides private practice throughout the world including Africa, Australia and New Zealand to name but a few.

But nobodies needs are best met by misunderstandings - we need a factual, open discussion.

Quite right. We need facts. Not misconstrued or mid represented snippets. Possibly being misrepresented for political ends.

So, before dealing with Clatterbridge, tell us, do Broadgreen, Walton, Fazackerly, Aintree or the Royal Liverpool offer private treatment and rooms?

Now to Clatterbridge. Does the Clatterbridge Clinic operate at all of the Clatterbridge 10 sites, or just on a tiny bit of, about to be redundant, Clatterbridge site on the Wirral, a bit that was no longer used by the NHS Clatterbridge and standing empty.

Does it have its own equipment and staff ( apart from a billing department ). Who owns all the marvellous equipment, Clinic or NHS? Who actually employs the medical staff, who then spend a couple of  sessions a week seeing people from all over the world?

Isnt it correct that the Clinic uses ( and pays for ) the NHS provided facilities?

Isnt it correct, for all the trumpeting, that clinic treats less than 0.1% of cases treated by Clatterbridge as a whole, across its sites? 

Has it ever treated a Manx NHS patient.

Clinic does not provide all round Cancer care. No soft cancers. Just a few hard cancers. 

They may make a profit, half of which goes back to NHS, but to do that they deprive NHS of full time full time access to the cutting edge scanners and treatment and staff.

Thats to the detriment of NHS Oncology patients in Merseyside, Lancashire, Cheshire and  North Wales, as well as the IoM.

Need to see what happens when all inpatient treatment ( apart from brain tumours ) moves to the new Clatterbridge, next to the Royal, in central Liverpool, early to mid 2020.

Im not averse to private medicine, on a not for profit basis, as long as its not run by big insurers and their big pharma and other industry buddies, to the detriment of patient care. That’s the badly broken American system.

New Clatterbridge should mean all the fancy equipment currently spread over multiple sites is now in one place, able to be more efficiently utilised to diagnose and treat more NHS patients. But possibly not if it’s prostituted out to the highest bidder, part time.

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John Wright,

As I have asked for an open (Public) debate on the issue, it seems only fair that I would want to debate it with you. You are after all a long-term Manx resident, a lawyer, and a recipient (patient) of the services that we are discussing.

I am very willing to answer, straightforwardly, honestly, and succinctly, the points you raise.

However, before I do so, I would like to hear from you the terms on which (and the reason for) doing so.

1. Are you going to use legal stuff (I am no lawyer) when it suits you best?

2. Are you going to use your health issues (I can at least match you) when they best suit you?

3. Are you going to use your 'Manxness' when that best suits you?

I believe that I have positive input to give, you also have the same.

What do you want? An argument over who is the most ill? Who is the most Manx? Who is the best lawyer?

Or, an open, public, debate on the issue?

What do you want your legacy to be? - straight talking time.

Edited by Manximus Aururaneus

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8 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Weirdness

That's a very strange post.

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10 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

John Wright,

As I have asked for an open (Public) debate on the issue, it seems only fair that I would want to debate it with you. You are after all a long-term Manx resident, a lawyer, and a recipient (patient) of the services that we are discussing.

I am very willing to answer, straightforwardly, honestly, and succinctly, the points you raise.

However, before I do so, I would like to hear from you the terms on which (and the reason for) doing so.

1. Are you going to use legal stuff (I am no lawyer) when it suits you best?

2. Are you going to use your health issues (I can at least match you) when they best suit you?

3. Are you going to use your 'Manxness' when that best suits you?

I believe that I have positive input to give, you also have the same.

What do you want? An argument over who is the most ill? Who is the most Manx? Who is the best lawyer?

Or, an open, public, debate on the issue?

What do you want your legacy to be? - straight talking time.

It’s nothing to do with profession, illness or Manxness. It’s to do with the facts you have claimed and I’ve called you on. Want a public debate? Answer the points I’ve raised about private v public medicine. 

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Just now, John Wright said:

It’s nothing to do with profession, illness or Manxness. It’s to do with the facts you have claimed and I’ve called you on. Want a public debate? Answer the points I’ve raised about private v public medicine. 

Fine, I'll do so now that we have the (your) terms.

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