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Neil Down

HORSE TRAMS

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1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I think we need to define 'heritage'. Installing a pile of tat that wasn't even made here just to give tourists something to do here is not heritage in my book.

Would a tired out unsafe building, such as Summerland had it survived, now be part of our 'heritage'?

Don't confuse everything from the past with heritage. It is our failure to introduce newer more in demand modern facilities here that are making us rely on tat.

In my book our real heritage sits with the Vikings.

If people want to keep the railways...fine...but don't expect the taxpayers to cover your laziness and inability to look after it and market it. And don't expect top dollar which they do.

What a negative post. Of course you are entitled to your opinions.

But if you think you have to define "heritage" then I can see where your negativity comes from.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Sheldon said:

"To find out more about what life is like working for the Department of Infrastructure, watch our video starring our wonderful employees talking about their careers within the Department."

A little bit of sick just came up in my mouth.

Fuck me that is pure class. So it’s a bit like joining the SAS then? Sign me up for the next apprentice weather forecaster! 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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4 minutes ago, Sheldon said:

A little bit of sick just came up in my mouth.

What an appalling expression.

It should be "Pass the sick bag Alice..."

There you go....

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13 hours ago, Twitch said:

To be fair, you'd not get much time for a chat on a 500m tram ride.

That may probably be for the best. 

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52 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

In terms of attacking tourists you have to think about what makes the Island attractive as a place to visit.

The uniqueness of the Isle of Man as a place to visit is a combination of the natural beauty, our heritage (Castle Rushen, Peel Castle, the Railway, Tramways, Laxey Wheel  etc) all in a relatively compact area.

We need to stop trying to turn the Island into a UK town.  It is not what we are.  

 

That was the late Samantha Barton's job.

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16 minutes ago, woolley said:

I'm sorry, but this is simply wrong. Coachloads of people every week come over to travel the railways. They do most definitely provide an incentive to travel to the Island. The combination of Victorian transport systems on the Island is unique in the world and the people who come for the first time are totally enchanted by what they find here. We seem to have a lot of people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I find it astonishing that some see no value whatsoever in the wealth of treasures that we are so lucky to have.

What is needed is much better marketing, and FAR less pen pushers attached to the services who raise the costs without adding any value. As far as the operational staff at the coal face is concerned, if anything there is too much casual cheap labour and not enough of the decades of experience that was once there. They got rid of lots of people in a very short space of time and brought in seasonal contracts without guaranteed hours. They lost an awful lot of operational knowledge in so doing.

Think about the word "Coachloads" Wooley. Do you not see a problem there?

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11 minutes ago, P.K. said:

What an appalling expression.

That sounds like a challenge to engage in a race to the bottom. There's lots worse where that came from.

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2 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

Think about the word "Coachloads" Wooley. Do you not see a problem there?

I take it from this that you mean the demographic? I was merely using the form of conveyance that tourists are taken around in from one location to the next. Yes, some are traditional tourists who come by coach on the ferry but many of them would be people from cruise liners who are bussed to either Derby Castle for the MER or Laxey for the SMR. The people who ride the railways come from all backgrounds, nationalities and age profiles. We just need MORE of them.

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2 minutes ago, Sheldon said:

That sounds like a challenge to engage in a race to the bottom. There's lots worse where that came from.

I'm sure of that!

Continued page 94...

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2 minutes ago, woolley said:

I take it from this that you mean the demographic? I was merely using the form of conveyance that tourists are taken around in from one location to the next. Yes, some are traditional tourists who come by coach on the ferry but many of them would be people from cruise liners who are bussed to either Derby Castle for the MER or Laxey for the SMR. The people who ride the railways come from all backgrounds, nationalities and age profiles. We just need MORE of them.

That's pretty much what Blackpool, Southport, Rhyl, and the rest said - and look what happened to them!

There are very few Tourist Boards these days who use the mantra 'More coaches please' - it's usually the exact opposite. 

Simple economics says that, if you are starting off with a high cost of travel up front, you are flogging a dead horse tram trying to compete in the bucket and spade market.

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There is a distinct difference in what attracts some visitors now and what you invest in to attract visitors in the future. Coach loads of older visitors are fine but they represent a shrinking market. Victorian quaintness is not necessarily attractive to our future visitors. Investment needs to be based on research and evidence-based strategy. I just don’t see half a million pounds annually sitting very well in such a strategy, if return on investment is a consideration. And it should be. 

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3 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

How do you work that one out? They were pulled up when tourism here was still substantial and the Steam Packet had 20 boats travelling to numerous ports...as did Ramsey pier become an uneconomic rust heap...because few paid to use them.

It's well passed time that the horse trams and the electric and steam railways were put in the hands of regulated charities and not paid for by taxpayers...other than some initial subsidies. Just think about how much of these costs goes on paying above market rate wages and pension pots.

In the total cost of running these things, is there a breakdown on what is paid in wages?

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4 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

In the total cost of running these things, is there a breakdown on what is paid in wages?

Sales £411,000

C.O.S. £ 10,000 (To include St. John field rental, Bags of Oats, A bucket of Paint, and membership of Wheeltappers & Shunters Club).

Gross Profit £401,000

Staff Costs £401,000

Profit  £000,000 (actually £320,000 loss but shhhhh)

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So the detractors who believe that our Victorian railways are worthless despite them increasing their patronage in recent years and covering substantially more of their costs than a decade ago. What is your suggestion as to our future strategy? Over the years I've read a lot of management babble such as: "Investment needs to be based on research and evidence-based strategy." but that's just words of the type that justifies too many management positions in my experience. A few real examples of projects to pursue would be far more convincing. More bullshitters is absolutely the last thing we need.

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4 minutes ago, woolley said:

So the detractors who believe that our Victorian railways are worthless despite them increasing their patronage in recent years and covering substantially more of their costs than a decade ago. What is your suggestion as to our future strategy? Over the years I've read a lot of management babble such as: "Investment needs to be based on research and evidence-based strategy." but that's just words of the type that justifies too many management positions in my experience. A few real examples of projects to pursue would be far more convincing. More bullshitters is absolutely the last thing we need.

You sound quite hot under the collar on this subject. Maybe you should crank the air-con up ;) 

There hasn't been much of a case laid above for continuing to lose many millions a year to cater for a dying demographic of pensioners and middle age men obsessed with obsolete forms of transport. 

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