Jump to content
Coronavirus topics renamed and some locked. No new topics. ×
Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man
slinkydevil

TT 2019 - Megathread

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, The Lurker said:

It isn’t really a fair comparison though; the Irish road circuits are very short in comparison to the TT course and it’s far easier to know with certainty that there’s nothing moving on the track over there; I believe there was one instance of an Irish visitor going on closed roads this year because ‘that’s what we do at the North West.’

It is far safer to have a blanket ban on entering a closed road than to risk it; travelling marshals, course cars and those VIP cars all travel significantly faster than everyday traffic and without any warning so a road that appears clear and would be safe to cross under normal road conditions is not safe when closed.

In fact the latest example mentioned here of someone being fined was that very visitor from Northern Ireland.  But I would have thought a shorter course would have had greater problems with unexpected movement as most places on it would be nearer to the start.  Not that that would apply here because Park Avenue is the second or third entrance to the TT Course after the starting line.  Which makes it all the odder that there was no Marshal there and that the barrier didn't deter pedestrian (who seem to have thought it only applied to vehicles).

The real query here is why they bothered to prosecute (they also cautioned the 17-year old son which will presumably give him a criminal record).  In a case where ignorance seems a plausible excuse and there was no resistance reported, giving someone a automatic £1000 plus fine seems harsh.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

In fact the latest example mentioned here of someone being fined was that very visitor from Northern Ireland.  But I would have thought a shorter course would have had greater problems with unexpected movement as most places on it would be nearer to the start.  Not that that would apply here because Park Avenue is the second or third entrance to the TT Course after the starting line.  Which makes it all the odder that there was no Marshal there and that the barrier didn't deter pedestrian (who seem to have thought it only applied to vehicles).

The real query here is why they bothered to prosecute (they also cautioned the 17-year old son which will presumably give him a criminal record).  In a case where ignorance seems a plausible excuse and there was no resistance reported, giving someone a automatic £1000 plus fine seems harsh.

It does, I think I also read that the wealth of the offender is taken into consideration, their ability to pay a large fine!

i know the arguments about vehicle and TM movements but if they are going to start dishing out heavy handed punishments, they need more marshals patrolling junctions and they need to be advising people better.

The attitude that everyone who visits is as aware as we are is arrogant. Marshals shouting for police attendance when all that’s needed are words of advice has tainted the TT, as has the obvious ignorance of the Deemster in dishing out over the top fines with threats of imprisonments for very minor offences which could have been dealt with by marshals.

Those who want to kick off and be awkward deserve all they get but some words of advice to those who make a genuine mistake are all that’s needed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

They are not shark infested waters. Cars aren't invisible. absolute overreaction that's just getting worse.

How is it an “overreaction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

They are not shark infested waters. Cars aren't invisible. absolute overreaction that's just getting worse.

The issue is that you may stop, look and listen but your everyday road sense is attuned to normal road conditions; a road that appears empty and safe to cross may not be when vehicles are hooning around at speed expecting an empty road. 

I agree that some of the punishments are too much for honest mistakes by people who are apologetic; I have a growing sense from my own experiences and anecdotal evidence that there are an increasing number of marshals who seem to be hell bent on exercising their authority  but people shouldn’t go on the closed roads under any circumstances. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Max Power said:

It does, I think I also read that the wealth of the offender is taken into consideration, their ability to pay a large fine!

i know the arguments about vehicle and TM movements but if they are going to start dishing out heavy handed punishments, they need more marshals patrolling junctions and they need to be advising people better.

The attitude that everyone who visits is as aware as we are is arrogant. Marshals shouting for police attendance when all that’s needed are words of advice has tainted the TT, as has the obvious ignorance of the Deemster in dishing out over the top fines with threats of imprisonments for very minor offences which could have been dealt with by marshals.

Those who want to kick off and be awkward deserve all they get but some words of advice to those who make a genuine mistake are all that’s needed.

Actually that is nowhere near the 'top fine' for the offence.  According to the Road Races Act 2016:

Quote

14 Offences

(1)A person commits an offence, and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £5,000, custody for a term not exceeding 6 months, or both, if the person without lawful authority or reasonable excuse —
(a) obstructs or otherwise hinders the conduct of a race held pursuant
to a racing authorisation;
(b) obstructs or otherwise hinders an official performing a function in
connection with a race held pursuant to a racing authorisation;
(c) fails to comply with a requirement imposed by a marshal under
section 10(3)(d);
(d) enters, is found or remains on a road or land in contravention of a
prohibition having effect by virtue of section 7;

Presumably it was (d) in this case (there are other very wide-ranging prohibitions as well).  So it's £5000 max.  I haven't seen a fine of less than £1000, so I suspect there is sentencing guidance that suggests that as a minimum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

I have no  idea I apologise.

corrected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interestingly I’ve just had a chat with a mate who is a bit more knowledgeable than I am about road racing; apparently at the Irish races people are allowed to cross but only after a marshal has blown a whistle to show it’s safe which sort of sinks his defence really as I’m sure no marshals were blowing whistles. 

There has been a general rise in issues with spectators over the last few years; I can’t help but wonder if this is related to no longer having the Police (auto predict just put police in as Power Lice!!) dotted around the course for the duration of the closure. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lurker Don't forget the social media effect where previously events did not impinge on the public consciousness, but now do.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

Interestingly I’ve just had a chat with a mate who is a bit more knowledgeable than I am about road racing; apparently at the Irish races people are allowed to cross but only after a marshal has blown a whistle to show it’s safe which sort of sinks his defence really as I’m sure no marshals were blowing whistles.  

Actually it sort of explains what happened.  Because he says he asked a bystander if they could cross and they said yes.  It may be that he was effectively asking is someone had blown the whistle (as he would in NI).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Lurker said:

Interestingly I’ve just had a chat with a mate who is a bit more knowledgeable than I am about road racing; apparently at the Irish races people are allowed to cross but only after a marshal has blown a whistle to show it’s safe which sort of sinks his defence really as I’m sure no marshals were blowing whistles. 

There has been a general rise in issues with spectators over the last few years; I can’t help but wonder if this is related to no longer having the Police (auto predict just put police in as Power Lice!!) dotted around the course for the duration of the closure. 

I think it is connected to the lack of a police presence as you suggest.

There also seems an unwillingness by some marshals to hand out a few stiff but polite words, some enjoy the escalation of these incidents as they wouldn’t have much to do otherwise.

i think it’s significant that the location of several transgressions are in the same sectors, maybe some are more understanding or lenient than others?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please, please, do not suggest Marshalls get given whistles the whole I am in charge scenario would be manic, you only have to see how some of the referees start acting when they get hold of one.    Slightly off topic does anyone remember the old song.   His little wooden whistle wouldn't whistle ?   My god they knew how to write songs in the day.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right on time. iomtoday covers the release of the Steamie's TT figures (sorry, can't link). Everything up on last year, passengers (+6%), bikes (+2%), cars and vans (+5%) Bookings for next year up too.

Airport yet to release figures but doubtless they'll be up too.

Edited by Non-Believer
Extra bit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmmmm

Your post is dripping with cynicism but I'm not really sure why. Could you assume I'm stupid (I am) and spell it out please.

Edited by piebaps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, piebaps said:

Hmmmmm

Your post is dripping with cynicism but I'm not really sure why. Could you assume I'm stupid (I am) and spell it out please.

Neither. Just glass half full. You're clearly imagining something.

I merely noted that the figures have been published by the media and posted them for the sake of debate and interest. Which is the purpose of these boards, is it not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...