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TT 2019 - Megathread

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12 hours ago, Max Power said:

They have had spectators hurt and killed but I'm not sure about crossing the roads? It's like everything on the IoM these days, we over react to everything without proper perspective. People need proper warnings, expecting them to know and understand the ramifications just because we do is not enough. many people are new to the event, every year!

It isn’t really a fair comparison though; the Irish road circuits are very short in comparison to the TT course and it’s far easier to know with certainty that there’s nothing moving on the track over there; I believe there was one instance of an Irish visitor going on closed roads this year because ‘that’s what we do at the North West.’

It is far safer to have a blanket ban on entering a closed road than to risk it; travelling marshals, course cars and those VIP cars all travel significantly faster than everyday traffic and without any warning so a road that appears clear and would be safe to cross under normal road conditions is not safe when closed.

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7 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

It is far safer to have a blanket ban on entering a closed road than to risk it

So why allow alcohol to be consumed whilst sat on a hedge?

Last year a couple of visitors were necking cider at the bottom of bray hill, they had a large collection of empties at their feet, just before the first bike came through one of the empties got kicked over and rolled out onto the course. A marshal spotted went out and grabbed it and shouted 'be more fucking careful' but did nothing about the rest of the empties at the feet of this party of drunk bike fans, love TT!

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2 hours ago, CharlieBrown said:

So why allow alcohol to be consumed whilst sat on a hedge?

Last year a couple of visitors were necking cider at the bottom of bray hill, they had a large collection of empties at their feet, just before the first bike came through one of the empties got kicked over and rolled out onto the course. A marshal spotted went out and grabbed it and shouted 'be more fucking careful' but did nothing about the rest of the empties at the feet of this party of drunk bike fans, love TT!

The issue in your example isn’t the consumption of alcohol but the irresponsible disposal of empties and the lack of action taken by marshals to prevent the empty going onto the track; early intervention by the marshals would’ve prevented that; maybe it’s a training issue?

With a track the size of the TT course you cannot have ifs, buts and maybes. No one is allowed on the track without authority from someone who knows what is moving on the course at that time; that’s who we ended up with a head-on between bikes and a course car last year.

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1 minute ago, The Lurker said:

The issue in your example isn’t the consumption of alcohol but the irresponsible disposal of empties .

I don't know why the drunk people did not think that one through.

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No matter how many warnings are out there (and there are many) you will always get the apologists making excuses for peoples stupidity

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4 hours ago, The Lurker said:

It isn’t really a fair comparison though; the Irish road circuits are very short in comparison to the TT course and it’s far easier to know with certainty that there’s nothing moving on the track over there; I believe there was one instance of an Irish visitor going on closed roads this year because ‘that’s what we do at the North West.’

It is far safer to have a blanket ban on entering a closed road than to risk it; travelling marshals, course cars and those VIP cars all travel significantly faster than everyday traffic and without any warning so a road that appears clear and would be safe to cross under normal road conditions is not safe when closed.

In fact the latest example mentioned here of someone being fined was that very visitor from Northern Ireland.  But I would have thought a shorter course would have had greater problems with unexpected movement as most places on it would be nearer to the start.  Not that that would apply here because Park Avenue is the second or third entrance to the TT Course after the starting line.  Which makes it all the odder that there was no Marshal there and that the barrier didn't deter pedestrian (who seem to have thought it only applied to vehicles).

The real query here is why they bothered to prosecute (they also cautioned the 17-year old son which will presumably give him a criminal record).  In a case where ignorance seems a plausible excuse and there was no resistance reported, giving someone a automatic £1000 plus fine seems harsh.

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2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

In fact the latest example mentioned here of someone being fined was that very visitor from Northern Ireland.  But I would have thought a shorter course would have had greater problems with unexpected movement as most places on it would be nearer to the start.  Not that that would apply here because Park Avenue is the second or third entrance to the TT Course after the starting line.  Which makes it all the odder that there was no Marshal there and that the barrier didn't deter pedestrian (who seem to have thought it only applied to vehicles).

The real query here is why they bothered to prosecute (they also cautioned the 17-year old son which will presumably give him a criminal record).  In a case where ignorance seems a plausible excuse and there was no resistance reported, giving someone a automatic £1000 plus fine seems harsh.

It does, I think I also read that the wealth of the offender is taken into consideration, their ability to pay a large fine!

i know the arguments about vehicle and TM movements but if they are going to start dishing out heavy handed punishments, they need more marshals patrolling junctions and they need to be advising people better.

The attitude that everyone who visits is as aware as we are is arrogant. Marshals shouting for police attendance when all that’s needed are words of advice has tainted the TT, as has the obvious ignorance of the Deemster in dishing out over the top fines with threats of imprisonments for very minor offences which could have been dealt with by marshals.

Those who want to kick off and be awkward deserve all they get but some words of advice to those who make a genuine mistake are all that’s needed.

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4 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

They are not shark infested waters. Cars aren't invisible. absolute overreaction that's just getting worse.

How is it an “overreaction?

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5 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

They are not shark infested waters. Cars aren't invisible. absolute overreaction that's just getting worse.

The issue is that you may stop, look and listen but your everyday road sense is attuned to normal road conditions; a road that appears empty and safe to cross may not be when vehicles are hooning around at speed expecting an empty road. 

I agree that some of the punishments are too much for honest mistakes by people who are apologetic; I have a growing sense from my own experiences and anecdotal evidence that there are an increasing number of marshals who seem to be hell bent on exercising their authority  but people shouldn’t go on the closed roads under any circumstances. 

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

It does, I think I also read that the wealth of the offender is taken into consideration, their ability to pay a large fine!

i know the arguments about vehicle and TM movements but if they are going to start dishing out heavy handed punishments, they need more marshals patrolling junctions and they need to be advising people better.

The attitude that everyone who visits is as aware as we are is arrogant. Marshals shouting for police attendance when all that’s needed are words of advice has tainted the TT, as has the obvious ignorance of the Deemster in dishing out over the top fines with threats of imprisonments for very minor offences which could have been dealt with by marshals.

Those who want to kick off and be awkward deserve all they get but some words of advice to those who make a genuine mistake are all that’s needed.

Actually that is nowhere near the 'top fine' for the offence.  According to the Road Races Act 2016:

Quote

14 Offences

(1)A person commits an offence, and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £5,000, custody for a term not exceeding 6 months, or both, if the person without lawful authority or reasonable excuse —
(a) obstructs or otherwise hinders the conduct of a race held pursuant
to a racing authorisation;
(b) obstructs or otherwise hinders an official performing a function in
connection with a race held pursuant to a racing authorisation;
(c) fails to comply with a requirement imposed by a marshal under
section 10(3)(d);
(d) enters, is found or remains on a road or land in contravention of a
prohibition having effect by virtue of section 7;

Presumably it was (d) in this case (there are other very wide-ranging prohibitions as well).  So it's £5000 max.  I haven't seen a fine of less than £1000, so I suspect there is sentencing guidance that suggests that as a minimum.

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48 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

I have no  idea I apologise.

corrected.

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Interestingly I’ve just had a chat with a mate who is a bit more knowledgeable than I am about road racing; apparently at the Irish races people are allowed to cross but only after a marshal has blown a whistle to show it’s safe which sort of sinks his defence really as I’m sure no marshals were blowing whistles. 

There has been a general rise in issues with spectators over the last few years; I can’t help but wonder if this is related to no longer having the Police (auto predict just put police in as Power Lice!!) dotted around the course for the duration of the closure. 

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@Lurker Don't forget the social media effect where previously events did not impinge on the public consciousness, but now do.

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