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TT 2019 - Megathread

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17 minutes ago, WTF said:

boat vs plane never stacked up long before IOMG got involved and started squeezing the pips

Exactly so exactly what is the point of buying the SPC if all you are going to do is continue that ridiculous situation or put up fares to make the differential even worse? 

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15 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Exactly so exactly what is the point of buying the SPC if all you are going to do is continue that ridiculous situation or put up fares to make the differential even worse? 

To stop further Vulture Capitalists from buying it and really taking the piss with prices! The Australian and Portugese banks were bad, but it could have been far worse. 

It's important that the Steam Packet remains profitable as it needs to pay back the C.£124m loan and fund two new vessels. 

 

It can't just be allowed to become the Bus Vannin of the seas. 

Edited by foxdaleliberationfront
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14 minutes ago, MrPB said:

No I’m not at all. You’re just making that up. 

Its almost a perfect example of tourists being disincentivized as they wouldn’t have come if they absolutely didn’t have to attend a wedding here. So I’m sure there may well be several tourists who didn’t strictly have to be here over bank holiday weekend who just elected not to come when they saw the boat fare. Cheaper to spend bank holiday in the Lakes rather than come from the UK on the boat so it’s hardly helping us attract tourists us it? 

It’s always been cheaper to spend a weekend in Blackpool, Brighton, Skegness, or Windermere than cross the Irish Sea.

Did they explore sail/rail? Often cheaper than foot passenger only fares, especially at peak season. I know that’s bizarre, but it’s true. Leeds to Douglas via Liverpool at TT was half the price of Liverpool to Douglas, and that was booked the week before. Not sure what would happen if you just turned up at the Pier Head without using the train part of the ticket. Perhaps that’s what the QR codes are all about!

so they wanted to come at August Bank holiday/FoM, second busiest dates of year, and didn’t expect to pay more?

Plane fares are cheaper than the boats at TT & MGP ( or whatever it’s called this year) because the Steam Packet maximises bikes, cars, vans, and occupants, not foot passengers. It’s capacity, occupancy and revenue management. Book 830 foot passengers and the bikes etc can’t come over as there’s no space for their riders.

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8 minutes ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

It can't just be allowed to become the Bus Vannin of the seas. 

That’s exactly where it will end up and sooner than you think. The new ships will end up a bit like the fleets of new Mercedes we buy - over specified, overpriced, and bought when cheaper alternatives will be abundant. 

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Just now, MrPB said:

That’s exactly where it will end up and sooner than you think. The new ships will end up a bit like the fleets of new Mercedes we buy - over specified, overpriced, and bought when cheaper alternatives will be abundant. 

Please point to the abundant cheaper alternatives. One link.

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6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Please point to the abundant cheaper alternatives. One link.

Is speculation now banned on this forum? If that’s the case then I can’t see much active debate happening. There will be other cheaper alternatives out there it doesn’t need to be backed up by any link to speculate that this is likely the case. Not least they could probably raise the money in the capital markets via a corporate bond rather than buying anything outright and finance it over 25 years out of revenue. 

Edited by MrPB
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14 minutes ago, MrPB said:

That’s exactly where it will end up and sooner than you think. The new ships will end up a bit like the fleets of new Mercedes we buy - over specified, overpriced, and bought when cheaper alternatives will be abundant. 

It won't. So long as politicians are not allowed to interfere with the running of the company. 

 

It's important that the Steam Packet continue to maximise their income during TT/MGP/FOM. There probably is a tipping point after which the price level will lead to a drop in demand and if that's ever reached then they'll be aware of that. But otherwise they should continue to milk that market for every single penny. 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

It won't. So long as politicians are not allowed to interfere with the running of the company. 

I don’t share your optimism as the MUA, Manx Radio et all have shown us. They can’t keep their hands off these businesses once they have them. 

Edited by MrPB
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24 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Is speculation now banned on this forum? If that’s the case then I can’t see much active debate happening. There will be other cheaper alternatives out there it doesn’t need to be backed up by any link to speculate that this is likely the case. Not least they could probably raise the money in the capital markets via a corporate bond rather than buying anything outright and finance it over 25 years out of revenue. 

142 metre boats aren’t available off the shelf.

Has financing method been decided, cast in stone?

Im not stopping speculation. I’m just asking where you think cheaper alternatives are for future proofed emission compliant, boats. There are none up for charter. There are two sisters, Clipper and Canterbury, but they’re spoken for.

You only need to look at the debacle over the two new CalMac boats to see that politicians must not get involved.

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7 minutes ago, MrPB said:

I don’t share your optimism as the MUA, Manx Radio et all have shown us. They can’t keep their hands off these businesses once they have them. 

Indeed, the very premise of your posting is that government should be involved to reduce fares and increase tax payer burden.

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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Indeed, the very premise of your posting is that government should be involved to reduce fares and increase tax payer burden.

No I just said that the high fares are counter intuitive and a disincentive to growing our visitor economy and will certainly be putting off some tourists. On buying boats it seems clear from what’s been in the press that they seem to be lining up to buy outright. Same as they’ve done with multi million pound bus orders. I think if we’re not very careful this will just end up as Ship Vannin. 

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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

142 metre boats aren’t available off the shelf.

Has financing method been decided, cast in stone?

Im not stopping speculation. I’m just asking where you think cheaper alternatives are for future proofed emission compliant, boats. There are none up for charter. There are two sisters, Clipper and Canterbury, but they’re spoken for.

You only need to look at the debacle over the two new CalMac boats to see that politicians must not get involved.

we will have a harbour big enough to take the titanic in a few years so finding little boats won't be a factor.   with all the money getting pissed away a  bridge/tunnel  from point of ayre to borough head would be cheaper in the long run.

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34 minutes ago, WTF said:

we will have a harbour big enough to take the titanic in a few years so finding little boats won't be a factor.   with all the money getting pissed away a  bridge/tunnel  from point of ayre to borough head would be cheaper in the long run.

The 142 metre limit is Heysham and the new Liverpool terminal

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43 minutes ago, MrPB said:

No I just said that the high fares are counter intuitive and a disincentive to growing our visitor economy and will certainly be putting off some tourists. On buying boats it seems clear from what’s been in the press that they seem to be lining up to buy outright. Same as they’ve done with multi million pound bus orders. I think if we’re not very careful this will just end up as Ship Vannin. 

And I’ve pointed out fares are cheaper now for at least 46 weeks of the year than they were 40 years ago.

Ive no data to compare TT and MGP fares then and now.

Its a capacity issue. Today’s Steam Packet is mean and lean on boats.

We have one that does 1350-1400 sailings a year and another does 800.

in 1977 we had two that each did less than 600 a year and 4 that did 100-150 each a year. 

So more sailings now, but no extra capacity at TT MGP

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