Jump to content
Coronavirus topics renamed and some locked. No new topics. ×
Manx Forums, Live Chat, Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man
On The Bus

Horse trams on the wrong track

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/horse-tram-temporary-marquee-cost-24000/

The genius Harmer has managed to save us £72,000 on a tent........ HURRAH 

Struggling to uncurl my toes.

Harmer is such a total wanker I’m amazed at his ability to hang on. I’m sure it’s only that fact that nobody else wants to be associated as being “the Minister for Clowns” that he’s still there. It’s surely a job nobody wants dealing with dickhead DOI management every day. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/horse-tram-temporary-marquee-cost-24000/

The genius Harmer has managed to save us £72,000 on a tent........ HURRAH 

Struggling to uncurl my toes.

"Future plans for the marquee within Govt".

365 day Gin Palace up Noble's Park?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

"Future plans for the marquee within Govt".

365 day Gin Palace up Noble's Park?

Nah, mobile food bank in our booming economy.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

"Future plans for the marquee within Govt".

They are going to use it for Tynwald...instead of it being full of horse shit its gonna be full of bullshit instead !!

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, b4mbi said:

It just doesn't make sense to look at the horse trams in isolation - they form part of a wider heritage transport network, which in turn forms part of the whole Isle of Man as a tourist destination offering.

Wouldn't it be better to take a top down approach and look at overall government accounts. What % of our total tax income are we as a community prepared to spend on attractions which support making the Isle of Man a tourist destination. This maximum % should then be allocated across all heritage/tourism assets - 10%? 

To go into the minutiae of the profit/loss of individual "tourist" assets is missing the broader picture.

Do the entry fees for Castle Rushen cover the staffing/upkeep/maintenance of the Castle? - sure as hell not
Do the fares for the heritage railways (incl. horsetram) cover their costs - sure as hell not
Do the entry fees for the House of Mannanan cover the running costs - sure as hell not
Who picks up the tab for running the Manx Museum?

All tourist assets will have cost. So my back of a fag packet calculations based on  blue book 17/18 -  £233m was collected in Income Tax (not NI, not VAT or any other Govt income) by IOMG.

£4.4m of net spending was made on Manx Museum and National Trust (MNH)
£4.9m of net spending on Motorsport (within DfE accounts)
£0.5m of net spending on Villa/Gaiety (within DfE)
£1.3m of net spend on Tourist development/tourist events (within DfE)
£0.4m of net spend on Wildlife Park (within DEFA)
£17.1m of net spend on Transport Services (within DOI) - but this must include the buses & horse trams - it is not broken down further, but that must be most ££ due to number of bus staff.
(£10.0) buses net spend cost guess. 

total £18.6m = approx. 8% of Income Tax receipts spent on tourist economy. - is that  reasonable?

Clearly, I've not considered the relatively high capital costs in maintaining the railways, but all other tourist attractions must also incur capital expense.

 

OK, that's all very good. How many tourists did the expenditure attract? How many tourists does the IOM actually attract, outside of Motorsport events and other special events? What I am trying to get to is the figure for tourists that come, principally for the Heritage "attractions". Does this information exist? It is well and good talking about the expenditure that goes into making the Island a tourism destination but that expenditure cannot be evaluated as being a good investment, without some information about the actual number of tourists actually attracted by it. A few years ago I read that the approximate number of visitors, annually was 300,000. Of these, 100,000 were visiting friends and family; 100,000 were business related and 100,000 were tourists. Of the 100,000 say 40,000 came to the TT, 10,000 to the Classic TT/MGP and another 5,000 to the Southern 100, car rallies or simply to visit the Island on motorcycles and car clubs. That leaves somewhere around 45,000 other tourists. What percentage of these arrived here because they would get to sit on a horse tram or steam railway? I don't know the answer to these questions and I suspect the likes of Mr Harmer don't know either. However that does not stop him from saying that criticisms or, at least questions about the value for money the losses on these services are misconceived. It would be true progress to have politicians who could explain their decisions with facts, rather than merely insulting the intelligence of those that dare to question.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, joebean said:

OK, that's all very good. How many tourists did the expenditure attract? How many tourists does the IOM actually attract, outside of Motorsport events and other special events? What I am trying to get to is the figure for tourists that come, principally for the Heritage "attractions". Does this information exist? It is well and good talking about the expenditure that goes into making the Island a tourism destination but that expenditure cannot be evaluated as being a good investment, without some information about the actual number of tourists actually attracted by it. A few years ago I read that the approximate number of visitors, annually was 300,000. Of these, 100,000 were visiting friends and family; 100,000 were business related and 100,000 were tourists. Of the 100,000 say 40,000 came to the TT, 10,000 to the Classic TT/MGP and another 5,000 to the Southern 100, car rallies or simply to visit the Island on motorcycles and car clubs. That leaves somewhere around 45,000 other tourists. What percentage of these arrived here because they would get to sit on a horse tram or steam railway? I don't know the answer to these questions and I suspect the likes of Mr Harmer don't know either. However that does not stop him from saying that criticisms or, at least questions about the value for money the losses on these services are misconceived. It would be true progress to have politicians who could explain their decisions with facts, rather than merely insulting the intelligence of those that dare to question.

The data must be there because all of the heritage transport 'attractions' sell tickets. If you exclude ticket sales during the motorsport and other organised events then that should give you a rough idea of other visitor patronage.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

The data must be there because all of the heritage transport 'attractions' sell tickets. If you exclude ticket sales during the motorsport and other organised events then that should give you a rough idea of other visitor patronage.

but they also sell tickets to locals?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/14/2019 at 2:10 PM, b4mbi said:

but they also sell tickets to locals?

-

Edited by LightBulb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/13/2019 at 3:25 PM, b4mbi said:

It just doesn't make sense to look at the horse trams in isolation - they form part of a wider heritage transport network, which in turn forms part of the whole Isle of Man as a tourist destination offering.

A rare dose of sanity. Most will just get angry at the headline figures, though and the act surprised years down the line when we've cut back on everything "unprofitable" and there's nothing left.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BM4Mbi or whoever said.....

47 minutes ago, bloodycomeover said:

they form part of a wider heritage transport network,

Should've made the JUrby Airships work then, shouldn't they? Also, the Port Soderick and Falcon Cliff funiculars, Douglas head tram and why not put the trams back in Victoria St???

Could bring in millions???

Edited by Kopek
credit
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Kopek said:

BM4Mbi or whoever said.....

Should've made the JUrby Airships work then, shouldn't they? Also, the Port Soderick and Falcon Cliff funiculars, Douglas head tram and why not put the trams back in Victoria St???

Could bring in millions???

Don't give Longworth any more ideas...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking the piss a bit above but just take the Vic ST trams, why not restore them? Because they would be a damn nuisance !

Why not close down the MER and Steam Trains? Because they are NOT a damn nuisance.

Should these Prom works have been taken as an opportunity  to get rid a the Horse Trams? Yes. Why, because they are a damn nuisance!!!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Should these Prom works have been taken as an opportunity  to get rid a the Horse Trams? Yes. Why, because they are a damn nuisance!!!

They won't even be on the road for most of the length of the prom once the works are complete.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wil be interesting to see what policy Longworths replacement follows.

They're not likely to castigate Longworths  model ( dont critisise your predecessor ) but will there be subtle changes of direction? 500 Citigo's on the second hand market???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...