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Horse trams on the wrong track

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8 minutes ago, gettafa said:

Why not single all the way with a passing place.

We've seen the problems along Harris Promenade at the moment.

I ask again - why the need for all that double track? Why?

It's a simple question and there should be a simple answer. I'll accept it if someone can provide it.

That guy who was on the radio this morning who sounded like he had a piece of straw sticking out the side of his mouth perhaps could answer. 

I asked this when they displayed the plans. I was told by a DOI bigwig that it was to make sure they could run their horse trams every 10 minutes at 'peak times'.  Apparently a single track wouldn't let them play trains in the way they want to. 

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3 hours ago, Gizo said:

So why do you infer foreigners to keep sctumm?

pillock. 

I would normally ignore such comments but on this occasion I won't.

Pr@.

 

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1 hour ago, On The Bus said:

I asked this when they displayed the plans. I was told by a DOI bigwig that it was to make sure they could run their horse trams every 10 minutes at 'peak times'.  Apparently a single track wouldn't let them play trains in the way they want to. 

Do the trams have a "peak" time? Is that when there's up to 5 passengers aboard?

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7 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Do the trams have a "peak" time? Is that when there's up to 5 passengers aboard?

I think it's classed as 2 days in mid-July when a few anoraks come over from the UK and form a queue to get the tram to the Terminus for a diet coke and share a bag of ready salted crisps.

 

So yes... 5 people aboard is probably a good approximation! 

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Oh dear. Horse trams again. Don't we have a lot of people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing? If the horse trams are all you have to complain about then there really isn't a lot wrong in your life.

They are iconic and unique to Douglas. They set Douglas apart from other places. Yes there are horse trams in museums, but there lies the difference. This is not a museum. We are blessed with a working example of a Victorian tramway operating its original route. It is precious.

The cost: Modest. About equivalent to the lump sum paid to one retiring top civil servant without adding his ongoing pension. I know which I would rather my taxes support. It is right that general taxation rather than Douglas ratepayers support the cost.

Longworth and the Promenade: To be fair, there is a lot more work going on than just the tramway. I don't support everything that the man has done by a long chalk, but it's a bit rich to lay the entire Promenade works' disruption at his door. He did have a stupid idea to run only as far as the Villa Marina, but Tynwald voted that down. Yes, a single track with passing places may have sufficed. Yes, it might have been better to put it alongside the pavement on the seaward side, but Tynwald could not agree on any alternative. This is why we have the status quo - double track down the middle. A single track down the middle would have been a hazard with the trams squeezed by traffic taking liberties.

Five on a tram is peak: Really? I often see them full. I see them empty too of course, but it seems that some of you only ever see the latter. A bit of balance please!

Cruelty to animals: You're having a laugh. The horses are bred for the purpose and enjoy the work. They are not ill-treated, scared, stressed or anything else adverse. The occasional one has dropped dead at work. So has more than the occasional human. They work a short shift and are treated as well if not better than patients in the hospital!

Road congestion: Really? This is the Isle of Man. Where are you going that you are going to be so painfully held up, for what? Ten minutes maximum on a rare occasion? If it's such a big deal, set out ten minutes earlier. Apart from at the TT we don't really have congestion in the true meaning of the word on the Island, thank goodness, and when we do it tends to be grid lock caused by the TT. As Longworth says, it's the traffic that's the problem. I would ban traffic entirely from the Prom except for access to properties outside of TT time, and leave it to walkers, cyclists and the trams. Wouldn't that be pleasant without the infernal combustion engine? Get off your dead end, onto your hind legs and use them. Get some fresh air and stop bleating.

Anything I didn't cover?

 

 

 

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.....and now, the DoI and Longworth think drivers should be more patient or use the Buses!!!

Someone fined for doing 30 in the 20 zone! Endangering the cones perhaps?

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From a few years ago, if you take the reported number of passengers, ( if you believe them! ), number of return journeys, length of season....... the average is in single figures.

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26 minutes ago, woolley said:

"We are blessed with a working example of a Victorian tramway operating its original route"

"The cost: Modest. About equivalent to the lump sum paid to one retiring top civil servant without adding his ongoing pension. I know which I would rather my taxes support. It is right that general taxation rather than Douglas ratepayers support the cost"

"Anything I didn't cover?"

 

 

 

1. It's not gojng to be very original by the time they've finished. New route, new stables etc.

2. Cost. May well be "modest" as above, in your opinion. But that's just the operating loss to the taxpayer every year. With no sign of it being turned around. DBC were quite right to get it off the Douglas ratepayer's backs, at lower loss figures than they're making now. Unfortunately Bullshit Gawne spouted imaginary "better" operating figures that it has yet to meet and dumped the lot on the general taxpayer. Now we're spending X £M so we can carry on losing £0.5M every year.

I'm not anti-horsetrams, incidentally. I am anti-the current finance figures for them.

3. Anything you didn't cover? On your post, just which room you and Ian Longworth are getting tonight.....

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, woolley said:

Oh dear. Horse trams again. Don't we have a lot of people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing? If the horse trams are all you have to complain about then there really isn't a lot wrong in your life.

They are iconic and unique to Douglas. They set Douglas apart from other places. Yes there are horse trams in museums, but there lies the difference. This is not a museum. We are blessed with a working example of a Victorian tramway operating its original route. It is precious.

New rails, non original layout after the Sefton, new stables, new tram sheds, new road. The only thing heritage left about them is the actual trams. They’re a bit like Triggers Broom with what’s left to be honest. Little heritage about what they’ve been turned into after the massive taxpayer “investment” to keep the head of chuff chuffs busy. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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9 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

Then added that bus journeys were up 77% in 5 years. On paper the guy is a genius

Yes, rumour has it that he's going to stand for the Keys next time around. We need more geniuses (or should tbat be geneii?) in Tynwald. You can never have enough of those. A bit like lerts. 

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6 hours ago, P.K. said:

Because it's not their heritage.

This isn't rocket science.

What a load of fuckn cock 

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24 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

 just which room you and Ian Longworth are getting tonight.....

Freakin' Jesus.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

New rails, non original layout after the Sefton, new stables, new tram sheds, new road. The only thing heritage left about them is the actual trams. They’re a bit like Triggers Broom with what’s left to be honest. Little heritage about what they’ve been turned into after the massive taxpayer “investment” to keep the head of chuff chuffs busy. 

For those with a classical education, this is a modern reference to The Ship of Theseus as discussed by Plutarch

 

Anyway you might as well say that as they don’t use the same horses or drivers they are not original 

Edited by kevster
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1 hour ago, woolley said:

Oh dear. Horse trams again. Don't we have a lot of people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing? If the horse trams are all you have to complain about then there really isn't a lot wrong in your life.

They are iconic and unique to Douglas. They set Douglas apart from other places. Yes there are horse trams in museums, but there lies the difference. This is not a museum. We are blessed with a working example of a Victorian tramway operating its original route. It is precious.

The cost: Modest. About equivalent to the lump sum paid to one retiring top civil servant without adding his ongoing pension. I know which I would rather my taxes support. It is right that general taxation rather than Douglas ratepayers support the cost.

Longworth and the Promenade: To be fair, there is a lot more work going on than just the tramway. I don't support everything that the man has done by a long chalk, but it's a bit rich to lay the entire Promenade works' disruption at his door. He did have a stupid idea to run only as far as the Villa Marina, but Tynwald voted that down. Yes, a single track with passing places may have sufficed. Yes, it might have been better to put it alongside the pavement on the seaward side, but Tynwald could not agree on any alternative. This is why we have the status quo - double track down the middle. A single track down the middle would have been a hazard with the trams squeezed by traffic taking liberties.

Five on a tram is peak: Really? I often see them full. I see them empty too of course, but it seems that some of you only ever see the latter. A bit of balance please!

Cruelty to animals: You're having a laugh. The horses are bred for the purpose and enjoy the work. They are not ill-treated, scared, stressed or anything else adverse. The occasional one has dropped dead at work. So has more than the occasional human. They work a short shift and are treated as well if not better than patients in the hospital!

Road congestion: Really? This is the Isle of Man. Where are you going that you are going to be so painfully held up, for what? Ten minutes maximum on a rare occasion? If it's such a big deal, set out ten minutes earlier. Apart from at the TT we don't really have congestion in the true meaning of the word on the Island, thank goodness, and when we do it tends to be grid lock caused by the TT. As Longworth says, it's the traffic that's the problem. I would ban traffic entirely from the Prom except for access to properties outside of TT time, and leave it to walkers, cyclists and the trams. Wouldn't that be pleasant without the infernal combustion engine? Get off your dead end, onto your hind legs and use them. Get some fresh air and stop bleating.

Anything I didn't cover?

 

 

 

We're not talking about intended cruelty. It's the fact of having a wild animal dragging 5 ton trams up and down the Promenade for the amusement of a few bearded anoraks. That sort of thing died out with performing animals in the circus. It's a Victorian freak show.

Also breathing in the exhaust fumes from the tens of thousands of cars and lorries that use the Prom each day is archaic at best! 

 

Then what do they do when they're not working? Cooped up in a tiny stables for 6 months of the year! 

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13 minutes ago, On The Bus said:

We're not talking about intended cruelty. It's the fact of having a wild animal dragging 5 ton trams up and down the Promenade for the amusement of a few bearded anoraks. That sort of thing died out with performing animals in the circus. It's a Victorian freak show.

Also breathing in the exhaust fumes from the tens of thousands of cars and lorries that use the Prom each day is archaic at best! 

 

Then what do they do when they're not working? Cooped up in a tiny stables for 6 months of the year! 

But the trams have wheels and free running bearings. It's not like dragging a dead weight over rough ground! Nothing to do with bearded anoraks. People of all ages enjoy the horse trams. You convinced me re the fumes, though. We need to ban motor vehicles from the Prom.

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