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Privatise the Airport

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1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Because the airport would rapidly become a left luggage depository, doss house, a nightmare for security, with queues at all facilities and lots more bored drunks. Airports are generally designed by taking into account the number of flights operating from them and the associated passenger volumes and processing times for those flights.

we need to downsize dramatically then, a shed in a field and a couple of sack trucks should do it.

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7 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

.(Incidentally I'm not sure to where that last sentence about the fall in income refers to by 'later'.  Any ideas?)

Roger, reading between the lines, I suspect it is linked to variable yields from EasyJet,  see:

“5.16 A further feature of the introduction of easyJet services has been the dilution of the yield earned by the Airport in terms of average passenger related aeronautical revenue per passenger, which has declined from £5.09 to £3.28 per passenger between 2007/8 and 2017/8 - a decline of 36% whilst passenger growth over the period has been 4.8% or 18.6% from the low point in 2010/11.  This is illustrated in Figure 5.4, which shows a decline in the amount of income from airport charges earned from each passenger as the proportion of easyJet passengers in the mix has risen from 0% to 40% in 2017.”

In addition

“8.47 In terms of future aeronautical incomes, we have assumed that yields from passenger charges remain static over the 5-year period, although our analysis in Section 5 suggests that there is a risk this might be difficult to achieve. If aeronautical yield continues to decline over the five-year period at the same rate as in the last twelve months to March 2018, then the trading position will be worse than we have projected.  If aeronautical incomes increase as a result of the proposed increased security charge of £1 per departing passenger from August 2018, the trading position will improve although we have some concerns that an increased charge to airlines could also have a negative effect on traffic growth.”      

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2 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Because the airport would rapidly become a left luggage depository, doss house, a nightmare for security, with queues at all facilities and lots more bored drunks. Airports are generally designed by taking into account the number of flights operating from them and the associated passenger volumes and processing times for those flights.

Nice to see you haven't lost your sense of humour....

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2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Nice to see you haven't lost your sense of humour....

But what Albert says is correct.

Historically you couldn’t check in physically, get your boarding card, drop your bags, go through to departures, until 2 hours before departure.

It did stop build up of luggage and large numbers in departures, drinking.

Airports/airlines actively discourage physical check in, pre check in on line is favoured.

Even if you had your boarding card you can’t get through security until 2 hours before departure. 

Flybe Liverpool don’t open their physical check in desk until then, for bag drop or the IT unsavvy.

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6 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Nice to see you haven't lost your sense of humour....

Ask a stoopid question...

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14 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes I saw that bit:

(my bold).  I rather took it to mean that the Airport does actually operate as I suggested.  I know in other airports, airline may use a ground handler of their choice (if there is one) to deal with baggage or in the past have even employed their own staff and in that in those circumstances they will be paying directly.  But it looks as if things are different here.  I can't imagine easyJet suddenly agreeing to make extra payments to Menzies with no reduction in fees to the Airport.

But then York Aviation admit that they are nowhere near understanding how the financial side operates, because no one does.  Those opening sentences in that para are echoed throughout the report many, many times.

(Incidentally I'm not sure to where that last sentence about the fall in income refers to by 'later'.  Any ideas?)

You imagine correctly Roger, the Airport having charged the airlines for years (albeit in with another fee) for baggage handling couldn't reduce the charges otherwise the great quoted figures on savings by off loading the DOI handlers would not have been achieved, this no doubt went down like a lead balloon with the airlines and in particular easyjet. 

Yupp as mentioned 5.16 is where the income went down however the expenditure increased too around the same time when they funded the security contractor companies staffs wages and admin staff, bizarrely!

John, access to departure lounges is generally 6 hrs before departure, some airports don't mind if even earlier in the hope you spend your cash. 

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1 hour ago, Whatcha said:

John, access to departure lounges is generally 6 hrs before departure, some airports don't mind if even earlier in the hope you spend your cash. 

Ronaldsway, Sofia T1&2, Barcelona T1&2, Liverpool, Manchester T3, Bourgas, Amsterdam, Jersey, Reus and Dublin ( all terminals) all 2 hours.

Gatwick N 2.5 hours ( increased from 2 in last 12 months )

City 3 hours.

Thats my experience of over100 flights over last 18 months.

Mind you I fly budget, and it’s either domestic or very short haul European.

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11 hours ago, WTF said:

we need to downsize dramatically then, a shed in a field and a couple of sack trucks should do it.

Do you mean like it used to be?

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John am referring to when you can go into a departure lounge, absolutely you will not be stopped in the Iom going in when you want and Liverpool is the same, being a smoker and they have smoking airside I actually go in to departures soon as I arrive at the airport which can be quite a few hours early and Heathrow is as early as you like, having been in Amsterdam 4 times past few years and again smoking airside, am there pretty early.

You don't think perhaps as your assisted it's less.

In short they want you airside soon as, spend spend sspend which also goes in line with what the York report suggested for ways to make more money :-)

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4 minutes ago, Whatcha said:

You don't think perhaps as your assisted it's less.

No.

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56 minutes ago, Whatcha said:

John am referring to when you can go into a departure lounge, absolutely you will not be stopped in the Iom going in when you want and Liverpool is the same, being a smoker and they have smoking airside I actually go in to departures soon as I arrive at the airport which can be quite a few hours early and Heathrow is as early as you like, having been in Amsterdam 4 times past few years and again smoking airside, am there pretty early.

You don't think perhaps as your assisted it's less.

In short they want you airside soon as, spend spend sspend which also goes in line with what the York report suggested for ways to make more money :-)

Will make a difference if you're checking a bag in (certainly Gatwick).

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I’ll try and elucidate.

Usual minimum check in ( bag drop ) or going through security, to airside, at most airports is fixed to allow you to get to your departure gate 20-30 minutes before departure ( dependent on airport and airline) .

if you require assistance it’s set at 2 hours. I often arrive earlier. I build extra time into every journey, just in case.

It is possible that, without bags, you’ve been allowed through earlier than the normal 2-3 hours before departure, but it’s not normal.

There are good reasons for the time limit. Yes there is the imperative you describe @Whatcha of upselling at shops, duty free and catering, but that has to be balanced against overcrowding, safety, security and poor experience. 

Each airside will have an overall maximum permitted occupancy level, there will be many fewer seats available in the main areas than that number. There can be unexpected bulges, unpredictable, due to delays, ATC, weather, technical, they have to keep capacity for that.

They need to manage footfall carefully. They neither want, nor need, people to go through too early.

There are other dangers in letting people through early, over capacity, excessive drinking and associated control issues, ending up with too many people airside and then not being able to allow later passengers through, even if their planes are on time.  Evacuation and security tracking, in and out, are also considerations.

If you have bags, well they really don’t want bags on the belt and through the handling system and cluttering up limited space. More chance of going astray. 

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The lack of airport finance in absolute terms is no surprise to the author of the report given to Government in 2006 and dismissed by that intellectual colossus Tony Brown as merely an academic report !

The report supported by lots of literature review, alliterates how the introduction of low cost airlines does not mean revenue from their activities per se, but rather the spin off activities are meant to support the operation as a whole. IOW airside restaurants bars and shopping are supported from the large volumes of passengers attracted by the carriers and the carriers themselves do not pay huge industry standard airport fees ! (you can certainly bet this is the case here). Clearly the IOM never fell into the beneficial category of having the passenger numbers to support an airport from the retail activities largely. (Unless of course you were one of the weak minded looking at 2.5 million passengers per year and growing by now ! ) I would have thought our management experts were fully aware of the financial implications of airport development mind you how you can be fully aware without full and detailed management accounting is beyond me !!

I quote from the now 13 year old report .....

Moreover the authors are unanimous in suggesting that airport investment should be implemented

on the grounds of addressing a demand for transportation. However it is also apparent that

infrastructure investment which encourages low cost airlines can also potentially lead to a reduction

in costs for passengers, therefore leading to induced passenger growth. This chicken and egg

scenario presents a major challenge for airport planners, as investments cannot be justified on

uncertain returns. Furthermore it has been identified that low-cost carriers do not guarantee an

ample revenue stream and therefore cannot be viewed as a large contributor to future returns on

investment. However in the correct market, a boost in airport users may also stimulate land-side

returns, viz. airport shopping.

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23 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Ask a stoopid question...

Don't be silly.

This seems to have gone in the wrong direction.

I was simply pointing out that on some airlines you can check in online and get your boarding pass well in advace of the flight, Flybe being 36 hours previously, but you can't do that at the airport. Why not?

I had to pick a colleague up early doors from Heathrow and the police were going around checking why folks were in the terminal and telling some of them to decamp. But then Heathrow has hotels where you can hire rooms by the hour. Not for the usual reason but for lengthy transfers. Makes sense.

Why Albert et al think folks would actually WANT to doss down in a cheerless place like Reynoldsway, which has all the glamour of a nineteen-fifties British Rail waiting room, I have absolutely no idea. Is it even open 24/7 ?

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1 hour ago, asitis said:

I would have thought our management experts were fully aware of the financial implications of airport development mind you how you can be fully aware without full and detailed management accounting is beyond me !!

Absolutely.

Reynolds should be up before the beak to explain why her financials are a mess.

If you can't put a £number on it then it has no value. This is basic stuff.

Mind you, this is the person who didn't do anything about the scrum at security because they weren't aware that there was a problem..... Eh?

Real "hands off" management in action....

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