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foxdaleliberationfront

DOI Says To Hell With Local Business

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1 minute ago, Andy Onchan said:

Sid, FWIW here's my view: 

Why oh why are they fecking around with fecking tramlines when the fecking elephant of the whole project is seemingly being ignored, ie the utilities? The guy this morning has admitted that the task of dealing with that is the most challenging. The tramlines and associated crap can be dealt with at the end, when all utility problems have been resolved and all costs known. Cart before horse seems the appropriate phrase.

What we need is an infrastructure fit for purpose.

Stop wasting taxpayers money!

well as suggested above, it makes sense to get the middle section down during the summer so that can become a carriageway during the winter. that way the landward services can get finished with 'minimum' *** disruption to the hoteliers and businesses. most of what's going on at present seems to be fact finding for the big dig. if i'm right, then the seaward side would be tackled next spring / summer. 

this is only my guesswork as a former civil* engineer 

* i swore too much to stay in that business 

*** this isn't a joke honest, what is going on now is nothing compared to what it can become :(

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A project of this magnitude, commenced KNOWING that there were going to be so many variables and unknowns has the potential for huge cost and time overruns. With no other option if those unknowns are encountered other than to simply embrace those overruns and suck it up. Once it was started there was a one way ticket on it (no pun intended).

That's why there was such cynicism over this project and its budget, only partly due to the involvement of the horsetrams. £25M? Lets look at £35M or £40M maybe. And a couple of years more than estimated as well maybe. Nobody knows. Because nobody CAN know. It's DOI justification heaven.

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1 hour ago, english zloty said:

well as suggested above, it makes sense to get the middle section down during the summer so that can become a carriageway during the winter. that way the landward services can get finished with 'minimum' *** disruption to the hoteliers and businesses. most of what's going on at present seems to be fact finding for the big dig. if i'm right, then the seaward side would be tackled next spring / summer. 

this is only my guesswork as a former civil* engineer 

* i swore too much to stay in that business 

*** this isn't a joke honest, what is going on now is nothing compared to what it can become :(

The middle bit is only being prioritised so that the DOI can play trains/trams with their expensive toy set. 

 

All the tram lines should have been left until right at the very end horse trams should have been suspended for 3 or 4 years (or even better scrapped altogether) - they're the least important and only non-essential bit of the whole project. But no, somebody in DOI had to prioritise them so they could fuck around pulling an empty tram up and down 500 yards of road. 

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1 hour ago, english zloty said:

well as suggested above, it makes sense to get the middle section down during the summer so that can become a carriageway during the winter. that way the landward services can get finished with 'minimum' *** disruption to the hoteliers and businesses. most of what's going on at present seems to be fact finding for the big dig. if i'm right, then the seaward side would be tackled next spring / summer. 

this is only my guesswork as a former civil* engineer 

* i swore too much to stay in that business 

*** this isn't a joke honest, what is going on now is nothing compared to what it can become :(

What intrigues me is why DOI didn't plan to blitz one section at a time, ie from Jubilee clock to the Gaiety. Finish that first, then move on from the Gaiety to Broadway, Broadway to Empress Drive/Castle Mona etc etc.

Deal with all the problems in one area before moving on to the next.

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1 hour ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

The middle bit is only being prioritised so that the DOI can play trains/trams with their expensive toy set. 

 

All the tram lines should have been left until right at the very end horse trams should have been suspended for 3 or 4 years (or even better scrapped altogether) - they're the least important and only non-essential bit of the whole project. But no, somebody in DOI had to prioritise them so they could fuck around pulling an empty tram up and down 500 yards of road. 

You don’t think cars will drive along it during winter then? Where will they go otherwise? 

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41 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

What intrigues me is why DOI didn't plan to blitz one section at a time, ie from Jubilee clock to the Gaiety. Finish that first, then move on from the Gaiety to Broadway, Broadway to Empress Drive/Castle Mona etc etc.

Deal with all the problems in one area before moving on to the next.

Nor me. 

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6 minutes ago, english zloty said:

You don’t think cars will drive along it during winter then? Where will they go otherwise? 

They could have just left the old road surface until it was time to replace it. Then lay the tracks once the road was finished. 

There was no need for it to be priority. Someone in DOI knew if there was no horse trams there would be no reduction in tourist and they wouldn't be able to defend their little pet project by saying it's an 'essential' visitor attraction! 

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9 minutes ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

They could have just left the old road surface until it was time to replace it. Then lay the tracks once the road was finished. 

There was no need for it to be priority. Someone in DOI knew if there was no horse trams there would be no reduction in tourist and they wouldn't be able to defend their little pet project by saying it's an 'essential' visitor attraction! 

With respect that takes no account of the engineering practicalities 

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6 minutes ago, english zloty said:

With respect that takes no account of the engineering practicalities 

It does. It would allow freedom to lay the utilities while having free range of the Prom, unhindered by horse trams. Then the track can be laid afterwards. 

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Just fit pneumatic wheel to the trams and fuck the rails off altogether!

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1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said:

What intrigues me is why DOI didn't plan to blitz one section at a time, ie from Jubilee clock to the Gaiety. Finish that first, then move on from the Gaiety to Broadway, Broadway to Empress Drive/Castle Mona etc etc.

Deal with all the problems in one area before moving on to the next.

It’s the same with all roadworks. Too many on the go at once. 

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Surely it is a good thing the trams have been running. Had they cancelled them we wouldnt have discovered the surface was unsuitable until the job was complete. Now they are only going to have to dig up and redo a short portion of the track. 

Longworth has saved us a fortune! 

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At least English has some experience in these matters, it is refreshing to have a civil engineer's opinion instead of all the experts who know sod all.   

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21 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

At least English has some experience in these matters, it is refreshing to have a civil engineer's opinion instead of all the experts who know sod all.   

I have a friend who in a well respected engineer. He isn't involved with the prom refurb scheme, but recently came to visit the island. 

He said it's "absolutely mental" that they've put the track down first. He said it is good form to sort out the utilities first, then proper foundations for the road then the track... he was a senior engineer on the Chunnel, HS2, and the Second City Crossing in Manchester. The latter involved making new tram tracks through a city centre that's even more complicated than Douglas prom. 

 

I'll take his view, rather than that of some armchair supporters who are probably employed by DOI anyway! 

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4 hours ago, foxdaleliberationfront said:

I have a friend who in a well respected engineer. He isn't involved with the prom refurb scheme, but recently came to visit the island. 

He said it's "absolutely mental" that they've put the track down first. He said it is good form to sort out the utilities first, then proper foundations for the road then the track... he was a senior engineer on the Chunnel, HS2, and the Second City Crossing in Manchester. The latter involved making new tram tracks through a city centre that's even more complicated than Douglas prom. 

 

I'll take his view, rather than that of some armchair supporters who are probably employed by DOI anyway! 

i would echo your friends comments.

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