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Freggyragh

Greta Thunberg

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It’s more than a bit lame to attack her for her age, gender, looks or whatever. She’s crossed the Atlantic in a yacht in August, she’s managed to start a global movement and get people talking - all of which would be pretty impressive whatever her age, gender, looks or whatever. I was hoping this thread would look at her message and discuss what we might be willing to do in response to it. So far the only attempt at offering a riposte to her message on here is a long ago de-bunked claim about volcanoes regurgitated from a conspiracy site.

In the 80s scientific enquiry told us that human activity was causing ozone depletion, and that this was very dangerous. Using international treaties, with advanced countries leading the way, we adapted our behaviour and the situation is now far better. Scientific enquiry now tells us that human activity is contributing to climate change, and that this is very dangerous. It seems governments won’t act fast enough this time around because such change will impact on lifestyles. Are you unwilling to adjust your lifestyle, don’t believe in science, think the science is being misused by some mysterious conspiracy, or are you thinking about what can be done to save the planet? 

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At the end of the day it's not really about saving the planet but ourselves, the human race.

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6 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

It’s more than a bit lame to attack her for her age, gender, looks or whatever. She’s crossed the Atlantic in a yacht in August, she’s managed to start a global movement and get people talking - all of which would be pretty impressive whatever her age, gender, looks or whatever. I was hoping this thread would look at her message and discuss what we might be willing to do in response to it. So far the only attempt at offering a riposte to her message on here is a long ago de-bunked claim about volcanoes regurgitated from a conspiracy site.

In the 80s scientific enquiry told us that human activity was causing ozone depletion, and that this was very dangerous. Using international treaties, with advanced countries leading the way, we adapted our behaviour and the situation is now far better. Scientific enquiry now tells us that human activity is contributing to climate change, and that this is very dangerous. It seems governments won’t act fast enough this time around because such change will impact on lifestyles. Are you unwilling to adjust your lifestyle, don’t believe in science, think the science is being misused by some mysterious conspiracy, or are you thinking about what can be done to save the planet? 

how is her illnesses linked to climate change..........

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We increase our numbers eightfold in just over a hundred years and wonder why there is a problem. We don't even recognise officially that our numbers are a problem. We are all there with lip service, but won't really change the way we do things. We still expect to be able to increase aviation by 25% in the coming decades - this week Easyjet announced a new domestic service between Birmingham and Glasgow. We mustn't do anything that affects "growth", of course.

Let's face it. We don't really care because in the long term we are all dead anyway.

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1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

 

In the 80s scientific enquiry told us ....

That is the point, there was no historical data on the ozone layer; in fact it was probably only recognised as a thing in the 1980s.  Nobody knows if the hole was there previously or how big it was.  Again, I am all for reduction of pollution, emissions etc..  But, I do worry about the current hysteria amongst young people and was particularly concerned about Greta yesterday.  She looked absolutely and worryingly distraught.  If she was my daughter, I would get her on the next plane home, to continue with her ecological campaign, with caring and considerate support, rather than winding her,  or allowing her to wind herself, into a frenetic bag of nerves.  I say that with more than a little understanding of spectrum behaviour. 

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1 hour ago, woolley said:

We increase our numbers eightfold in just over a hundred years and wonder why there is a problem. We don't even recognise officially that our numbers are a problem. We are all there with lip service, but won't really change the way we do things. We still expect to be able to increase aviation by 25% in the coming decades - this week Easyjet announced a new domestic service between Birmingham and Glasgow. We mustn't do anything that affects "growth", of course.

Let's face it. We don't really care because in the long term we are all dead anyway.

Interesting.  Boris Johnson's father was on the Rob Rinder programme last Friday.  I  didn't know he was a conservationist.  When asked about his views on the current environmental disaster, he said that his  concern was the ever increasing human population  which was met with horror by other guests.  Astonishing, because if we want to save the world, the best thing would be to reduce our population.  Or, perhaps, we just want to keep the world for ourselves? 

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11 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That is the point, there was no historical data on the ozone layer; in fact it was probably only recognised as a thing in the 1980s.  Nobody knows if the hole was there previously or how big it was.  Again, I am all for reduction of pollution, emissions etc..  But, I do worry about the current hysteria amongst young people and was particularly concerned about Greta yesterday.  She looked absolutely and worryingly distraught.  If she was my daughter, I would get her on the next plane home, to continue with her ecological campaign, with caring and considerate support, rather than winding her,  or allowing her to wind herself, into a frenetic bag of nerves.  I say that with more than a little understanding of spectrum behaviour. 

any parent would........

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The quality of public political discourse has taken a major nosedive and reached a new low with grown adults now thinking it's acceptable to openly go around mocking a 16 year old girl's appearance.

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Just now, Rushen Spy said:

The quality of public political discourse has taken a major nosedive and reached a new low with grown adults now thinking it's acceptable to openly go around mocking a 16 year old girl's appearance.

Who is mocking her?  I, certainly, am not.

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26 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That is the point, there was no historical data on the ozone layer; in fact it was probably only recognised as a thing in the 1980s.  Nobody knows if the hole was there previously or how big it was.  Again, I am all for reduction of pollution, emissions etc..  But, I do worry about the current hysteria amongst young people and was particularly concerned about Greta yesterday.  She looked absolutely and worryingly distraught.  If she was my daughter, I would get her on the next plane home, to continue with her ecological campaign, with caring and considerate support, rather than winding her,  or allowing her to wind herself, into a frenetic bag of nerves.  I say that with more than a little understanding of spectrum behaviour. 

Agreed about the ozone and the hyperbolic hysteria  which is being promoted by various parties using the climate as a bandwagon to push their political or economic agendas.

But I do think Greta is on the right side of history when it comes to fighting against pollution and environmental destruction. You don't need to believe in "global warming" to recognise that these are real concerns for long-term human survival.

There has been some discussion of the effects of it on mental health, particularly that of young people. I know a number of people who feel that their mental health has deteriorated with a sense of hopelessness due to it.

I think Pandora's box has already been opened and that can't be reversed now. The only way to combat the mental health aspect is to bring forward meaningful and constructive ways for young people (and people of all ages, but especially young people) to "do something" or at least to FEEL like they are doing something. That's why I fully agree with some of the efforts by the Climate Change Coalition and others. I don't agree with some of the political factions that are involved, but I do think a coordinated engagement with the community is necessary.

Some of the people whose mental health has been adversely affected by the stress of climate change have already felt better because they've participated in events or they've learned how to recycle or they've changed their consumer choices based on information that's been put out there. That's why Greta Thunberg became an activist.

Edited by Rushen Spy

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11 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Who is mocking her?  I, certainly, am not.

I wasn't referring to this thread/forum. It was just a general comment on the public discourse. Have you seen all the "memes" making fun of her appearance? It's truly pathetic.

Edited by Rushen Spy
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12 minutes ago, Rushen Spy said:

The quality of public political discourse has taken a major nosedive and reached a new low with grown adults now thinking it's acceptable to openly go around mocking a 16 year old girl's appearance.

i'm not.......

have a read of this........

https://quillette.com/2019/04/23/self-harm-versus-the-greater-good-greta-thunberg-and-child-activism/

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11 minutes ago, Rushen Spy said:

Agreed about the ozone and the hyperbolic hysteria  which is being promoted by various parties using the climate as a bandwagon to push their political or economic agendas.

But I do think Greta is on the right side of history when it comes to fighting against pollution and environmental destruction. You don't need to believe in "global warming" to recognise that these are real concerns for long-term human survival.

There has been some discussion of the effects of it on mental health, particularly that of young people. I know a number of people who feel that their mental health has deteriorated with a sense of hopelessness due to it.

I think Pandora's box has already been opened and that can't be reversed now. The only way to combat the mental health aspect is to bring forward meaningful and constructive ways for young people (and people of all ages, but especially young people) to "do something" or at least to FEEL like they are doing something. That's why I fully agree with some of the efforts by the Climate Change Coalition and others. I don't agree with some of the political factions that are involved, but I do think a coordinated engagement with the community is necessary.

Some of the people whose mental health has been adversely affected by the stress of climate change have already felt better because they've participated in events or they've learned how to recycle or they've changed their consumer choices based on information that's been put out there. That's why Greta Thunberg became an activist.

She may be on the right side, (I think anything to reduce man's impact on the environment is to be applauded), but we have to be sure that people are educated that a little change by a lot of people will have a bigger impact than a grand gesture by a few.  That will help with the feelings of hopelessness and helplessness that seem to be behind many of the mental issues being spoken about at the moment. 

Initiatives like Beach Buddies are a fine example - give up a few hours every now and again and you, with all the others, have a significant impact.  When I walk the dogs on a beach  I always take  a bag to pick up plastic.  The bag used to fill up very quickly, now I rarely find enough to fill a bag.  Although, if I wander away from the main beach, there is more to find, often left overs from people barbecuing and thinking the best way to dispose of the remnants is to shove some stones over the waste. 

Perhaps, the difference is because of fewer storms in the summer to wash up rubbish, or perhaps it is because there has been a widespread change in habits.  Either way, it is noticeable. 

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37 minutes ago, Gladys said:

She may be on the right side, (I think anything to reduce man's impact on the environment is to be applauded), but we have to be sure that people are educated that a little change by a lot of people will have a bigger impact than a grand gesture by a few.  That will help with the feelings of hopelessness and helplessness that seem to be behind many of the mental issues being spoken about at the moment. 

Initiatives like Beach Buddies are a fine example - give up a few hours every now and again and you, with all the others, have a significant impact.  When I walk the dogs on a beach  I always take  a bag to pick up plastic.  The bag used to fill up very quickly, now I rarely find enough to fill a bag.  Although, if I wander away from the main beach, there is more to find, often left overs from people barbecuing and thinking the best way to dispose of the remnants is to shove some stones over the waste. 

Perhaps, the difference is because of fewer storms in the summer to wash up rubbish, or perhaps it is because there has been a widespread change in habits.  Either way, it is noticeable. 

ireland stopped dumping rubbish in the sea......

innovation is the answer not taxation.......

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If you haven’t seen it before, Greta’s recent letter below some of your concerns (Stu, Woody, Neil).  It would be interesting to discuss the apathy and fatalism that Woolley admits is his response. I don’t think I’m ready yet to adjust my own lifestyle sufficiently to be on the right side of history (what’s left of it) either. Is it impossible to control the world’s population - or would tackling poverty reverse the population growth, as it has for native populations in Europe and East Asia? Anyway, here’s Greta’s response to the conspiracist nutjobs, bigots and science deniers:

“Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.
 
In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.
 
When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.
 
Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for  myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is  fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.
 
My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.
 
And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.
 
Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.
 
Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.
 
There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.
 
 
And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/talks/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_case_to_act_right_now_on_climate/up-next ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.  
 
And thank you everyone for you kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor has anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised and I have accepted their apology.”

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