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Ďouglas Peel

Anne Sacoolas Fugitive

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Anne Sacoolas is the name of the American diplomats wife,who killed young motorcyclist Harry Dunn,by driving on the wrong side of the road in the Uk,and then fled to the US after telling police she wouldnt.Could you sleep easily after that? What a great chance to show the world the US isnt the backward,gun totting,fat guzzling nation,that many of us think it is,if they would  just send her back.

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The UK is in take pants down and bend over mode as far as the USA is concerned.

They are desperate for a post Brexit trade deal.

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Does that mean we get more great usa goods? Like i. Pads made by Samsung, Gibson guitars that wont stay in tune,Harley Davidsons  nuff said,Coffee served in soup plates,by costa starbucks etc,or great American cars like ...ehm hm ehm ehm... cant think of none.  or Levis made in Mexico,which are good  by the way.Will Britain  go under if we dont get genuine American goods like ehm ehm.ehm.

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On the other hand we get to sell them out stuff like British cars made by ehm ehm........

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13 hours ago, Ďouglas Peel said:

Anne Sacoolas is the name of the American diplomats wife,who killed young motorcyclist Harry Dunn,by driving on the wrong side of the road in the Uk,and then fled to the US after telling police she wouldnt.Could you sleep easily after that? What a great chance to show the world the US isnt the backward,gun totting,fat guzzling nation,that many of us think it is,if they would  just send her back.

We do not know how much pressure was put on her husband Jonathan who is apparently part of the intelligence gathering community at the base. He has a duty to Uncle Sam and the higher ups in Washington just wanted to stop the show there and then and got the family out ASAP.

They can stand the row over the traffic incident from afar but not the great post mortem of the family being turned over by the tabloids if there were to be a court hearing. The children were even at the school where the deceased man's father worked. This then drags them into the light of exposure. Americans pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands. He has a sort of spook's job and she is a service wife. We do not even know I think the husband's rank and status. They were ordered to leave using diplomatic immunity. What is done is done.

Also, it is said that Mrs Sacoolas admitted it was her fault. Was she cautioned? Did she even know of the procedure under PACE? ie Not obliged to say anything etc. Enough material there for a noisy court hearing and press comment. And if she got a sentence "American spy's wife jailed!"..That would be a headache for the prison service.

It is bigger than driving the wrong side of the road simply because of her and her husband's situation. And has she ever held a service rank? Or worked in the spook/intelligence game?

IF she and her husband were ordered out from Washington there would have been little they could have done about it even if she wanted to remain. Uncle Sam sent them to the UK. Uncle Sam orders them back home. Unless things have changed, when you are on a base it is as if you are in the USA as is being in the US Embassy. The American embassy is the only place I have seen armed US Marines on duty in London. But legally they are in the USA.

Mrs Sacoolas was in the USA until she drove out of the gates into the UK. What the USA does if anything by way of compensation is another matter because there is little it can do other than offer money and that will be regarded as an insult. 

IF I  were in Washington making the decision in full possession of the facts I think I would have said just get them out of there. I think the UK would have done the same in a reverse situation.

 

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2 hours ago, Barrie Stevens said:

We do not know how much pressure was put on her husband Jonathan who is apparently part of the intelligence gathering community at the base. He has a duty to Uncle Sam and the higher ups in Washington just wanted to stop the show there and then and got the family out ASAP.

They can stand the row over the traffic incident from afar but not the great post mortem of the family being turned over by the tabloids if there were to be a court hearing. The children were even at the school where the deceased man's father worked. This then drags them into the light of exposure. Americans pledge allegiance to the flag and the republic for which it stands. He has a sort of spook's job and she is a service wife. We do not even know I think the husband's rank and status. They were ordered to leave using diplomatic immunity. What is done is done.

Also, it is said that Mrs Sacoolas admitted it was her fault. Was she cautioned? Did she even know of the procedure under PACE? ie Not obliged to say anything etc. Enough material there for a noisy court hearing and press comment. And if she got a sentence "American spy's wife jailed!"..That would be a headache for the prison service.

It is bigger than driving the wrong side of the road simply because of her and her husband's situation. And has she ever held a service rank? Or worked in the spook/intelligence game?

IF she and her husband were ordered out from Washington there would have been little they could have done about it even if she wanted to remain. Uncle Sam sent them to the UK. Uncle Sam orders them back home. Unless things have changed, when you are on a base it is as if you are in the USA as is being in the US Embassy. The American embassy is the only place I have seen armed US Marines on duty in London. But legally they are in the USA.

Mrs Sacoolas was in the USA until she drove out of the gates into the UK. What the USA does if anything by way of compensation is another matter because there is little it can do other than offer money and that will be regarded as an insult. 

IF I  were in Washington making the decision in full possession of the facts I think I would have said just get them out of there. I think the UK would have done the same in a reverse situation.

 

A quick google highlights many examples of diplomatic immunity being waived when someone commits criminal offences; the following quote from Wikipedia is quite relevant. 

'In January 1997, Gueorgui Makharadze, a high-ranking Georgian diplomat, caused a five-car pileup in Washington, D.C., in the United States, which killed a 16-year-old girl. Makharadze's claim of diplomatic immunity created a national outrage in the United States, particularly given Makharadze's previous record of driving offenses: In April 1996, Makharadze had been charged with speeding in Virginia, and four months later, he was detained by District of Columbia police on suspicion of drunk driving.[57] In both prior cases, charges were dismissed based on his immunity. On the basis of the media coverage, Georgia revoked Makharadze's immunity, and he was ultimately sentenced to seven years in prison after pleading guilty to one count of involuntary manslaughter and four counts of aggravated assault.'

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5 minutes ago, The Lurker said:

A quick google highlights many examples of diplomatic immunity being waived when someone commits criminal offences; the following quote from Wikipedia is quite relevant. 

'In January 1997, Gueorgui Makharadze, a high-ranking Georgian diplomat, caused a five-car pileup in Washington, D.C., in the United States, which killed a 16-year-old girl. Makharadze's claim of diplomatic immunity created a national outrage in the United States, particularly given Makharadze's previous record of driving offenses: In April 1996, Makharadze had been charged with speeding in Virginia, and four months later, he was detained by District of Columbia police on suspicion of drunk driving.[57] In both prior cases, charges were dismissed based on his immunity. On the basis of the media coverage, Georgia revoked Makharadze's immunity, and he was ultimately sentenced to seven years in prison after pleading guilty to one count of involuntary manslaughter and four counts of aggravated assault.'

Can't see Trump giving an American up, can you?

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This proves what I am saying

1 hour ago, The Lurker said:

A quick google highlights many examples of diplomatic immunity being waived when someone commits criminal offences; the following quote from Wikipedia is quite relevant. 

'In January 1997, Gueorgui Makharadze, a high-ranking Georgian diplomat, caused a five-car pileup in Washington, D.C., in the United States, which killed a 16-year-old girl. Makharadze's claim of diplomatic immunity created a national outrage in the United States, particularly given Makharadze's previous record of driving offenses: In April 1996, Makharadze had been charged with speeding in Virginia, and four months later, he was detained by District of Columbia police on suspicion of drunk driving.[57] In both prior cases, charges were dismissed based on his immunity. On the basis of the media coverage, Georgia revoked Makharadze's immunity, and he was ultimately sentenced to seven years in prison after pleading guilty to one count of involuntary manslaughter and four counts of aggravated assault.'

Not relevant. The Georgian was expendable to his government. And he was over the top by way of multiple offences. Mrs Sacoolas is a service wife. They are service family. The circumstances are different. There is more to it and a risk of exposure in an intelligence context. Diplomats are one thing. Spooks are another. 

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I agree that she shouldn't have done a runner (whether she was ordered to or not) but I sympathise with the way the crash happened because "there but for the grace of God go I".  I once drove for about half a mile on the wrong side of a Canadian back road before realising my mistake, because I was on autopilot and just doing what I would naturally have done in the UK, and it's just lucky that Canadian back roads are quiet.

The main danger point for a foreign driver driving on the wrong side of the road is a quiet road and/or turning out of a driveway or side road onto a main road, as she was apparently doing.  If there is lots of other traffic about, you just follow the other traffic and it's easy to stay on the correct side.  When there's no other traffic about, there are no cues to remind you.  

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:52 AM, BallaDoc said:

I agree that she shouldn't have done a runner (whether she was ordered to or not) but I sympathise with the way the crash happened because "there but for the grace of God go I".  I once drove for about half a mile on the wrong side of a Canadian back road before realising my mistake, because I was on autopilot and just doing what I would naturally have done in the UK, and it's just lucky that Canadian back roads are quiet.

The main danger point for a foreign driver driving on the wrong side of the road is a quiet road and/or turning out of a driveway or side road onto a main road, as she was apparently doing.  If there is lots of other traffic about, you just follow the other traffic and it's easy to stay on the correct side.  When there's no other traffic about, there are no cues to remind you.  

That may be so on first arrival in a different country, or when pissed.

She was none of those was she ?

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