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Derek Flint

Climate change. discuss/.

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Just now, Rog said:

 

It's not the  energy being released by burning fossil fuels that's the problem, it's the result of radiation from the sun on radiatively active gases that comprise the atmospheric polution and that create heat in their own right - but in addition prevent that heat to escape into space.  Throw in the heating of the earth by being exposed to the sunlight and Houston, we've got a problem. 

That's just the starter of a 101 where the causes of global climate change is concerned.

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4 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

It's all a load of bollocks 

Is that scientifically proven? 

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4 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

Chrimbo must add a fair bit to climate change. One would have thought that considerate souls like ourselves may think about toning the whole thing down a bit. Instead Christmas trees seem to go up earlier, adorned with more and more lights. How are christmas lights even legal in these woken times? 

Well yes it does. It's easy to be flippant, and when I were a lad we 'ad a Christmas tree and a dozen measly lights that rarely worked anyway. These days there's a reindeer and Santa the size of the house lit up with 1kw of coloured lighting. Literally can be seen from space.

Multiply that by a million or so.

Ok, not massive when compared to the big big world, bit it is not insignificant. 

And that is the point.


 

3 hours ago, Rog said:

It's not the  energy being released by burning fossil fuels that's the problem, it's the result of radiation from the sun on radiatively active gases that comprise the atmospheric polution and that create heat in their own right - but in addition prevent that heat to escape into space.  Throw in the heating of the earth by being exposed to the sunlight and Houston, we've got a problem. 

That's just the starter of a 101 where the causes of global climate change is concerned.

Lots of factors. Lots and lots, and many that few care or know about. Probably because to them they are meaningless and insignificant, but multiplied by millions and more, it becomes a different story.

The earth has been around a long time. It and its resources and integrity aren't infinite.

But to see that, one has to take their eyes off their computer screen/TV etc, and their head oot o' their arse.

That's the difficult bit.

But my life is ok Jack.

Edited by gettafa
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If scientists can work out the population of earth 10,000 years ago and the temperature to points of degrees millions of years ago then surely one of them must be able to work out the extra cost to the environment of our over commercialised christmases nowadays. Borrowing notwells back of a fag packet for a mo, I estimate 2 months worth of electric for the month of december all in. Not counting all the trees cut down and the plastic shite disguised as presents, or the delivery mileage or in fact, anything else. We could all cut down at christmas, but it won't happen because lots of people are making lots of money out of our excess. Which brings me back to my original point about tuborg lager.

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17 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

If scientists can work out the population of earth 10,000 years ago and the temperature to points of degrees millions of years ago then surely one of them must be able to work out the extra cost to the environment of our over commercialised christmases nowadays. Borrowing notwells back of a fag packet for a mo, I estimate 2 months worth of electric for the month of december all in. Not counting all the trees cut down and the plastic shite disguised as presents, or the delivery mileage or in fact, anything else. We could all cut down at christmas, but it won't happen because lots of people are making lots of money out of our excess. Which brings me back to my original point about tuborg lager.

I'm slowly weaning my young family off the over-commercialisation of Christmas...I'm no miserable twat and I don't agree that climate change is occurring, sure we're in no way benefittingthe plsnet (to do so we must all surely commit suicide en masse at rxactly the same time) but the vast waste, and shite that's consumed at Christmas is heart breaking especially when there's a fuck load of people who don't have a lot to piss in and to be the greedy, capitalist, consumer drivennrodents that we are is a complete and utter piss take of the highest order.

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1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said:

If scientists can work out the population of earth 10,000 years ago and the temperature to points of degrees millions of years ago then surely one of them must be able to work out the extra cost to the environment of our over commercialised christmases

Of course they have.  Here's a paper from as long ago as 2007 and an undated blog entry from one of its authors.  Enjoy.

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7 hours ago, Rog said:
8 hours ago, NoTail said:

I think you are conflating pollution (a bad thing) with global warming (a very bad thing). The connection between the two is tenuous and according to some unproven. We can and should concentrate on reducing pollution.

I fall into the camp that believe that polution of our environment is a key factor in global climate change. 

Actually the connections between the two are strong, but not simple.  Some pollutants themselves may act as greenhouse gases (eg methane), but the biggest contributor is always going to be carbon dioxide, just because so much of it is produced.  Alternatively some pollutants may actually work against global warming as shown in a phenomena call Global Dimming, so getting rid of pollution may paradoxically make things worse.  The world isn't simple and a lot of the emotional resistance to accepting the existence of man-made climate change comes from people who wish it was.

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8 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually the connections between the two are strong, but not simple.  Some pollutants themselves may act as greenhouse gases (eg methane), but the biggest contributor is always going to be carbon dioxide, just because so much of it is produced.  Alternatively some pollutants may actually work against global warming as shown in a phenomena call Global Dimming, so getting rid of pollution may paradoxically make things worse.  The world isn't simple and a lot of the emotional resistance to accepting the existence of man-made climate change comes from people who wish it was.

But then not all gasses are equal.  Methane has a very much greater effect where the greenhouse effect than CO2 and with increasing sea temperatures methane that had been trapped as methane hydrate are being released as methane into the atmosphere in ever increasing amounts. In addition to that elevated global temperature which is taking place results in a greater amount of water vapour which is an absolute bugger in that the hotter the world gets the more is formed. Water vapour comprises the most abundant of the greenhouse gasses (I think I read).

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Methane does have a greater capacity than CO2 to absorb and reemit certain frequencies of light but it quickly breaks down into CO2 which then hangs around for centuries. If you emit an amount of methane which breaks down into a tonne of CO2 then, over its life time back and forth between plants etc and the atmosphere before it is permanently sequestered in rock or the deep ocean in 500 years or so, the contribution of the period when it was methane is trivial compared to when it was CO2. 

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4 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Methane does have a greater capacity than CO2 to absorb and reemit certain frequencies of light but it quickly breaks down into CO2 which then hangs around for centuries. If you emit an amount of methane which breaks down into a tonne of CO2 then, over its life time back and forth between plants etc and the atmosphere before it is permanently sequestered in rock or the deep ocean in 500 years or so, the contribution of the period when it was methane is trivial compared to when it was CO2. 

But a huge problem arises because  marine polution is destroying organisms that absorb CO2 together with our destruction of CO2 sinks on land and increased desertification that is taking place because of this.

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8 hours ago, Chinahand said:

Methane does have a greater capacity than CO2 to absorb and reemit certain frequencies of light but it quickly breaks down into CO2 which then hangs around for centuries. If you emit an amount of methane which breaks down into a tonne of CO2 then, over its life time back and forth between plants etc and the atmosphere before it is permanently sequestered in rock or the deep ocean in 500 years or so, the contribution of the period when it was methane is trivial compared to when it was CO2. 

Rog may be thinking more about the effect of mass release of methane due to the warming of ocean bottoms and on-land reservoirs, such as permafrost.  It's true that generally in atmosphere carbon dioxide is more important, for the reasons you outlined, but this a feedback effect that could take place relatively quickly.

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