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TT Scoreboard Consultation


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7 minutes ago, MrPB said:

Unlikely I would say. They seem to be literally chomping at the bit to burn millions on this. Maybe they could open up a Foodbank in the paddock grounds for those who can’t afford £5 for a hot dog whose taxes will be paying for a replacement scoreboard? 

They're living in some kind of fantasy land that's for sure!

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Strange isn't it? We can afford to be bandying £50M Grandstand and scoreboard redevelopment sums about; but we can't afford to send the Fishery Protection vessel out to sea...

And what fuckwit thought that would be a good idea. The event's are near enough a polar opposite to each other as one is mainly a car based hill climb with various static displays. And in the good old

Not really Derek, the scoreboards are not vital to the running of the races and have no effect on any outcomes, they are purely for the visitor experience and letting the pit crew know that their ride

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On 12/16/2019 at 5:32 PM, Derek Flint said:

It likely isn’t high enough, and depending what hits it it does flex somewhat to absorb the impact. Of course, that may well then rebound and be catapulted to the other side of the track where the high octane fuel in gravity fillers and loads of people are.

In the entire history of the TT how many accidents have occurred on that particular stretch of the course?  I cannot recall any.  The installation of that fencing just strikes me as someone who has gone mad with a risk assessment.

The biggest risk to the Scouts is a fall from height for those operating the clocks.  That used to have a walkway made of two or three planks with scaffolding poles behind to prevent anyone falling over.

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6 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

In the entire history of the TT how many accidents have occurred on that particular stretch of the course?  I cannot recall any.  The installation of that fencing just strikes me as someone who has gone mad with a risk assessment.

The biggest risk to the Scouts is a fall from height for those operating the clocks.  That used to have a walkway made of two or three planks with scaffolding poles behind to prevent anyone falling over.

These things are done by people who have never raced or experienced the speeds or control which riders have. It's understandable that they can get it muddled up, and nobody wants to disagree once something has been pointed out, for fear that they will be seen as responsible.

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20 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

In the entire history of the TT how many accidents have occurred on that particular stretch of the course? 

In a way...shit loads. It backs onto the cemetery. With probably 100,000 in there by now, it serves as a reminder that at least 1,000 of them would have appreciated better risk assessments in place the time they arrived.

I've seen a few bikes go in unexpected places over the years, usually on oil or due to seizures. Imagine if the scouts did the scoreboard for F1 as close to the action as they are here. There'd be an outcry.

Probability suggests it wouldn't be long till one of them fell off accidently, or some bike lost control in that stretch. It's unlikely but possible...and in this case, with vastly increased speeds over the last 50 years, IMO this warrants that protection for them. The price of not doing it would see calls to end racing here.

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1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

In a way...shit loads. It backs onto the cemetery. With probably 100,000 in there by now, it serves as a reminder that at least 1,000 of them would have appreciated better risk assessments in place the time they arrived.

I've seen a few bikes go in unexpected places over the years, usually on oil or due to seizures. Imagine if the scouts did the scoreboard for F1 as close to the action as they are here. There'd be an outcry.

Probability suggests it wouldn't be long till one of them fell off accidently, or some bike lost control in that stretch. It's unlikely but possible...and in this case, with vastly increased speeds over the last 50 years, IMO this warrants that protection for them. The price of not doing it would see calls to end racing here.

We've already seen horrific accidents occur on unlikely parts of the course such as that suffered by Paul Shoesmith on Sulby Straight a few years back. I can't even comprehend similar happening in front of the Grandstand but it has to be factored in as a risk.

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Once a bike lets go, for whatever reason, it’s a complete lottery where components of it will end up. Only a few years ago a wheel ended up through the window of a house at the bottom of Bray Hill.

but there are definite areas where there has to be a higher than average risk. Hence prohibited and restricted areas. And where there is a need to operate in the areas you can’t sufficiently restrict, you need to mitigate with the likes of catch fencing. Which again begs the question why there isn’t any on the other side of the road?

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12 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I've seen a few bikes go in unexpected places over the years, usually on oil or due to seizures. Imagine if the scouts did the scoreboard for F1 as close to the action as they are here. There'd be an outcry.

Open wheel racing has additional risks which can, and do, result is cars becoming airborne.

As Derek says, why just the scoreboard side? What about the pit lane side with all the fuel?

Why not on other areas of the course where spectators gather? 

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13 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Only a few years ago a wheel ended up through the window of a house at the bottom of Bray Hill.

I know coppers are  always 100% right but the wheel did not go through the window, that was just a bit of creative license from the overly dramatic house owners and Paul Moulton egging them on. But what about that crowd, all those life changing injuries, did not see Paul Moulton follow that one up.

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6 hours ago, CharlieBrown said:

I know coppers are  always 100% right but the wheel did not go through the window, that was just a bit of creative license from the overly dramatic house owners and Paul Moulton egging them on. But what about that crowd, all those life changing injuries, did not see Paul Moulton follow that one up.

Different incident.

The one outside the old Garden city Stores.which you refer to is a very good example though.

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14 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Open wheel racing has additional risks which can, and do, result is cars becoming airborne.

As Derek says, why just the scoreboard side? What about the pit lane side with all the fuel?

Why not on other areas of the course where spectators gather? 

Because they only did a 'risk assessment' for the scouts.

https://www.bikesportnews.com/news/news-detail/tt-scoreboard-safety-fence-there-to-protect-scouts

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There's not actually that much fuel in the pits and it's held over quite a large area in small individually strong containers. All in that area are required to wear protective clothing. The rules and regs for that area are very strict. There's also a rigorously controlled speed limit before entering the pits. Any fire would be out in seconds. Plus there's at least 30 yards between the grandstand spectators and the fuel and 20 yards from the fuel to the scouts. A fire there causing a large amount of smoke would simply mean the grandstand or scoreboard being evacuated if required, through the back...can't remember that happening ever. Bikes don't tend to explode as they portray in the movies and on TV (highly unlikely).

You can't protect everyone from everything...hence the signs that racing is dangerous and you spectate at your own risk...even at the grandstand. And 'unlikely' shit can still happen.

Difference here of course is that scouts are children...not adults making up their own mind as to the risks and legal responsibilities associated.

Times have changed...you don't see St John ambulance kids out on the course any more either. I imagine that was stopped late 80s? I did dozens and dozens of those duties as a kid. In 1976 a St John lad narrowly missed dying at Union Mills though ended up injured and in hospital. The copper stood next to him was killed outright.

 

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27 minutes ago, MadAsHell said:

He might want to read that interview back to himself

“I did a risk assessment last year during the Festival of Motorcycling and concluded that if a bike was to lose control through this section or two bikes were to touch, the only thing that the Scouts on the Scoreboard had for protection was some Armco, a wooden bannister and some green wire mesh – not really sufficient considering bikes achieve 186+ mph through this part of the Course.”

“Nothing has happened here, but if it did and some Scouts were seriously injured or worse… where would the TT be then? “

can you imagine the field day a Barrister would have with that? 

“So, Mr. Thompson, what you are effectively saying is that the protection of a scout is more important than it was of the deceased husband of my client, who died from his burns and impact injuries when two bikes touched and went out of control, and careered into the pit lane refuellers at (*checks notes for dramatic impact*) one hundred and eighty-six miles per hour? And this, Mr Thompson, was on a risk assessment that was more inclined towards the reputational damage that might occur than any real focus on the saving of lives?”

I really do hope that people in the positions that count look in on MF and read some of this stuff, if only to discount our views as utter bunkum. But there doesn’t seem to be anyone asking “what will this look like in court?” let alone actually driving the mitigation of risk against a real focus on protection of life. 

I really think the TT and the mountain circuit are exceptional and everything possible should be done to keep it going. From my own point of view and approach to risk,  I honestly don’t know how some people sleep at night. It’s a massive responsibility they shoulder and I can’t reconcile how certain things are done, or not done. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

There's not actually that much fuel in the pits and it's held over quite a large area in small individually strong containers. All in that area are required to wear protective clothing. The rules and regs for that area are very strict. There's also a rigorously controlled speed limit before entering the pits. Any fire would be out in seconds. Plus there's at least 30 yards between the grandstand spectators and the fuel and 20 yards from the fuel to the scouts. A fire there causing a large amount of smoke would simply mean the grandstand or scoreboard being evacuated if required, through the back...can't remember that happening ever. Bikes don't tend to explode as they portray in the movies and on TV (highly unlikely).

You can't protect everyone from everything...hence the signs that racing is dangerous and you spectate at your own risk...even at the grandstand. And 'unlikely' shit can still happen.

Difference here of course is that scouts are children...not adults making up their own mind as to the risks and legal responsibilities associated.

Times have changed...you don't see St John ambulance kids out on the course any more either. I imagine that was stopped late 80s? I did dozens and dozens of those duties as a kid. In 1976 a St John lad narrowly missed dying at Union Mills though ended up injured and in hospital. The copper stood next to him was killed outright.

 

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Denis Hamer. Ex Lancs Bobby. Many years later I had a near miss at the same spot....

you are right about the pit stop element Albert. It’s the bikes touching or letting go that isn’t catered for. Any grandstand that close to a track anywhere else is protected by catch fencing, as are pits areas. 

As for bikes not exploding

1958D832-8742-44F0-BC19-3D09AF8742E2.jpeg

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