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Road Tax

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I've been refrained from making comment as I am a new boy (2 years on the IoM - from UK, before that - Australia).

And yes- I know there is a ferry in the morning.

And yes - the island is a beautiful place.

But -

But -

The roads are crap!

I wrote to the saftey committe last year when they had the big inquest into road speed.

I see they are finally going to make the road signs out of reflective material -just as they are in most places around the world. :o

The biggest problem here on the island is 2-fold.

1/ The work ethic is "who cares? there's always tommorow.

2/ The idiots in HQ road office wouldn't know a curved, banked bend (engineers bend) if they fell over it.

Most of the roads have no foundation - they are simply formed on the ground. The romans developed road foundations 2000 years ago! A good road base not only supports the road, but allows moisture to pass through.

 

Oh and could someone tell me why people drive around with a box on the roof of their cars?  :unsure:

 

1/It's called 'Traa dy looar.' Its a tradition that would make more sense on the national emblem than 'Quocunque jeceris stabit'! :)

 

2/The Romans never got here so we missed out on that stage of our development and still haven't caught up yet! :angry:

 

Haven't seen many boxes on top of cars - but have seen boxes that are cars - I think they're called 'Volvos.' Apparently they're virtually indestructible, which is why their owners tend to drive them at 20 mph so they won't cause injury to anyone. :rolleyes:

 

On a more serious note - the Promenade in Douglas is a complete mess! It ought to be a showpiece - but it's actually a disgrace. I know the bill for doing it properly is estimated to be long millions but, unless they make some sort of start on it soon, it's going to go beyond repair. Maybe the developers who make such a profit out of the new apartments could be asked to contribute to the road outside their lucrative properties?

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" Yep and the foundation is mostly sand.

Understandably so living on an Island and all that, but drylene concrete springs to mind but that's way to expensive so I'm told "

 

Well don't you think building proper roads that last years is financially good, it means reduced maintenance over he long term and less wear on peoples vehicles.

 

Half the problem is these large wagons carrying 20 tonne loads day in day out on roads really only made to take cars and light traffic.

 

All most of us want is value for money, i think most of the money that is earned from road tax goes to other departments in the government and not spent on improving the bone shaker patchwork quilt roads. :angry:

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It's very unlikely to happen, and certainly not without a lot of investment, but I really think that ideally on an Island this size, and with roads this small, theidealoption would be to transport most of the heavy good by rail, and by shipping it to the nearest destination.

 

Now obviously the main part of the problem is getting it to the destination, but it would still be possible to minimise the amount of heavy traffic on the roads in general. If a harbour tramway was built in Douglas, to the Steam Packet yard, containers could be taken straight off the ships, and loaded straight onto the train and taken to their destination. (where they could then be transferred onto small lorries to get to the industry in question). Most industries are based within a few miles of the old railway systems (I was thinking more of the Steam than the Electric as TBH it would be a lot easier to use the steam for goods than the Electric). Ok this doesn't resolve the problem of getting it around Douglas, but at least it gets the heavy traffic off the main roads, reducing congestion and reducing wear + tear on the roads. You could even ban heavy goods road vehicles from the Island with a few exceptions.

 

 

Now ok I'm not under any illusions that it wouldn't cost a heck of a lot of money. Massive amounts of upgrading (and obviously rebuilding) would have to be done on the railways. For example most bridges would have to be rebuilt to give a greater loading gauge, and special flat wagons would have to be built. Subsidies could be drawn from the main industries the produce the traffic (ie quarries, supermarkets, etc) to support the building and maintainance costs.

 

 

It's not likely to happen because no-one will throw that amount of money at it, and I suspect it would not get popular backing. But it would allow practical use to be made of the railways, giving them a viable economic use. And it would relieve both congestion and wear and tear on the roads. I also suspect though expensive, in the long term it would actually work out cheaper. But as I said, it is unlikely to happen, because government doesn't want it.

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I've wanted to know the answer to this question for years:

 

Why has Peel Road in Douglas always had the strange 'bumpy-slide' effect?!

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Lots of valid points,

Rail system,

Peel road into douglas,

The prom in douglas,

But one main item not mentioned so far?...

What about the blood great fuel tax the IOM govt stick on our fuel???? :angry:

We pay tax to register the car or bike, plus a heavy fuel tax - FOR WHAT?

A pathetic line of old tar, with no road base, drainage or signage.

Pissed Off.

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Why has Peel Road in Douglas always had the strange 'bumpy-slide' effect?!

 

I think it's because it has a concrete bas just below the tarman, just like the prom. Most otrher roads have layers of agregate (?) which give you a softer ride

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Why has Peel Road in Douglas always had the strange 'bumpy-slide' effect?!

 

I think it's because it has a concrete bas just below the tarman, just like the prom. Most otrher roads have layers of agregate (?) which give you a softer ride

 

 

Not just that though, it's full of holes.

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I also suspect though expensive, in the long term it would actually work out cheaper. But as I said, it is unlikely to happen, because government doesn't want it.

 

I would be interested to hear the argument about how this 'ideal' solution would actually work out cheaper and in who's lifetime? You are talking about building a rail infrastructure , presumably adding additional lines, a tramway system from the harbour to the Stream Packet yard, lifting gear at every rail and tramway destination and then still loading a container onto a lorry to deliver to the door!Where is the benefit? All main towns on the Island are within 18 miles of Douglas. Is there that much heavy traffic to warrant such a solution? Imagine the outcry of Government did back it! Remember the other sledgehammer schemes (incinerator, Iris, etc)

 

Best to sort out the roads we have and try and minimise the number of road users. This may not sound radical, but lets get this into context.

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What are you all whingeing about?  They're only roads, its only cars.  So, it's a bit bumpy sometimes.  So what?

 

More important things in life.

Try telling that to a biker that kissed the tarmac thanks to loose chippings or potholes..

 

 

I am a biker - loose chippings are no problem, you get plenty of warning - as for potholes, any decent biker knows all the road surfaces, even where the likely potholes are, and rides accordingly.

 

And the bumps at Peel Road are spectacular at speed, when there's no-one about.

 

Stop whingeing about the roads. They are only roads. Life is too short.

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I also suspect though expensive, in the long term it would actually work out cheaper. But as I said, it is unlikely to happen, because government doesn't want it.

 

I would be interested to hear the argument about how this 'ideal' solution would actually work out cheaper and in who's lifetime? You are talking about building a rail infrastructure , presumably adding additional lines, a tramway system from the harbour to the Stream Packet yard, lifting gear at every rail and tramway destination and then still loading a container onto a lorry to deliver to the door!Where is the benefit? All main towns on the Island are within 18 miles of Douglas. Is there that much heavy traffic to warrant such a solution? Imagine the outcry of Government did back it! Remember the other sledgehammer schemes (incinerator, Iris, etc)

 

Best to sort out the roads we have and try and minimise the number of road users. This may not sound radical, but lets get this into context.

 

 

Well considering the most expensive part of a railway is the trackbed, and the earthwork, they're already in place, so that is not an issue. True work would need to be done on overbridges, I've already said that.

 

As concerns tramways, I think you do not fully understand what I meant by the expression tramway. I was talking about a tramway in an industrial sense - in otherwords what you would think of as a railway, not a tramway in the sense of the horse or electric trams.

 

Lifting equipment? There are other ways to remove containers than using cranes. I seem to remember seeing a method of jacking containers off flat wagons which was in use in the 80's.

 

As concerns the overall cost, well given that the government has already spent a fair amount on the infrastructure of the railways, it seems better to employ them in a useful revenue earning capacity, rather than as a toy trains set for the tourists. Yes it would take a long time to regain the money spent, but one has to think for the future, and not just the present.

 

The costs could be recovered by a number of means - less wear on roads, revenue generated from the freight. As regards the means of transferring the containers to their final destination, that could also be handelled by the railway company using road vehicle operated by themselves . Now ok it doesn't totally get rid of road freight, but it does reduce the distance travelled by the freight upon the roads. Then there's also the safety aspect of getting large lorries off the road which hasn't been considered.

 

And I think despite objecting, you've already basically backed up the usefulness of such a system - by saying that we need to reduce the amount of road users. Well this is one way to do it.

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It's very unlikely to happen, and certainly not without a lot of investment, but I really think that ideally on an Island this size, and with roads this small, theidealoption would be to transport most of the heavy good by rail, and by shipping it to the nearest destination. 

 

Now obviously the main part of the problem is getting it to the destination, but it would still be possible to minimise the amount of heavy traffic on the roads in general.  If a harbour tramway was built in Douglas, to the Steam Packet yard, containers could be taken straight off the ships, and loaded straight onto the train and taken to their destination. (where they could then be transferred onto small lorries to get to the industry in question).  Most industries are based within a few miles of the old railway systems (I was thinking more of the Steam than the Electric as TBH it would be a lot easier to use the steam for goods than the Electric).  Ok this doesn't resolve the problem of getting it around Douglas, but at least it gets the heavy traffic off the main roads, reducing congestion and reducing wear + tear on the roads.  You could even ban heavy goods road vehicles from the Island with a few exceptions. 

 

 

Now ok I'm not under any illusions that it wouldn't cost a heck of a lot of money. Massive amounts of upgrading (and obviously rebuilding) would have to be done on the railways.  For example most bridges would have to be rebuilt to give a greater loading gauge, and special flat wagons would have to be built. Subsidies could be drawn from the main industries the produce the traffic (ie quarries, supermarkets, etc) to support the building and maintainance costs.

 

 

It's not likely to happen because no-one will throw that amount of money at it, and I suspect it would not get popular backing.  But it would allow practical use to be made of the railways, giving them a viable economic use.  And it would relieve both congestion and wear and tear on the roads. I also suspect though expensive, in the long term it would actually work out cheaper.  But as I said, it is unlikely to happen, because government doesn't want it.

 

 

Or maybe a system of canals and locks criss crossing the island like the surface of mars. Or maybe giant hovercraft or teleportation :unsure:

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Talking about Peel Road, didn't they dig it up not so long ago, and when they put it all back down they even put all the yumps back !

 

At least it's somewhere to test the shockers !

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Talking about Peel Road,  didn't they dig it up not so long ago, and when they put it all back down they even put all the yumps back !

 

At least it's somewhere to test the shockers !

 

I recall hearing someone from the DoT on the radio at the time saying that the bumps were originall installed deliberately to get rid of surface water on the road and that it would be very expensive to sort it out.

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Or maybe a system of canals and locks criss crossing the island like the surface of mars. Or maybe giant hovercraft or teleportation  :unsure:

 

 

Well the problem with canals is that the gradients in the IOM mean that you are going to have problems transporting stuff inwards from the ports. I can just imagine the state of the goods in those barges from Douglas after they've hit the rapids on the drops down to Ramsey. Plus we'd need huge pumps to make sure the water didn't just run out to sea. Hang on a mo, could use the sewage from the Iris scheme to float the barges in, and guaranteeing that all the effuent stays at the top of the hill (with a little help from the pumps powered by electricity from the new powerstation). Only problem is that we might get a lot of opposition from animal rights activists saying it's cruel getting those shire horses to drag the barges to their destination.

 

Hovercraft? Maybe a bit more practical. I think there is a lot of potential here, could be free if it used the hot air from Tynwald.

 

Teleportation? Still at theoretical stages at the moment. It seems some carriers have enough problem getting items to their destination in one piece without the risk of their particles being scattered during the process, and then reassembled in the wrong order.

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