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Flybe on the brink again

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1 minute ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

What do you think is correct, John?

The points 1,2,3 & 4, you carefully edited out of my quote make the scenario on pprune impossible. 
 

I don’t have to propose alternatives. I’m not in the know.

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4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The points 1,2,3 & 4, you carefully edited out of my quote make the scenario on pprune impossible. 
 

I don’t have to propose alternatives. I’m not in the know.

There has to be some hidden boost or unlocked value in there though as they only bought it what 6 months ago? They must have had a plan to either refinance or exit with some hidden value when they went in to get it wrong so soon. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight

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10 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

There has to be some hidden boost or unlocked value in there though as they only bought it what 6 months ago? They must have had a plan to either refinance or exit with some hidden value when they went in to get it wrong so soon. 

I’m sure you’re right, but some of the hidden benefits may be intangibles, or hard to quantify, and may have been medium term. Or beneficial to the ongoing Virgin and Stobart businesses.

Things like:

Moving staff on to Stobart T&C. Quite large savings, but flybe staff have been resistant.

Having a Virgin feeder network.

Shedding unprofitable routes.

Shedding head office staff.

Stobart operating out of Southend as Virgin Connect, instead of Stobart, after its flybe franchise ended.

Maintain traffic volume at Stobart Airports ( Southend )

And, of course we don’t know if Virgin or Cyrus have actually put in their £70 million, or whether they got cold feet as losses couldn’t be stemmed.

Of course Virgin have form for not managing to get feeder lines to work, and whilst Stobart Air has a happier financial position than the same name, but differently owned, trucking business, it’s Genesis from Aer Arran was messy.

All the above is speculative. But the pprune stuff is demonstrably wrong.

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3 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I’m sure you’re right, but some of the hidden benefits may be intangibles, or hard to quantify

Is Eddie Teare the CEO..... ?:lol:

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2 hours ago, John Wright said:

The points 1,2,3 & 4, you carefully edited out of my quote make the scenario on pprune impossible. 
 

I don’t have to propose alternatives. I’m not in the know.

Sorry John, I've obviously touched a nerve.  I shall leave you to your speculation.

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7 hours ago, Bobbie Bobster said:

Sorry John, I've obviously touched a nerve.  I shall leave you to your speculation.

No nerve touched. Just pointing out the impossibility of the pprune scenario.

You believe what you want to believe, even if demonstrably wrong.

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10 hours ago, John Wright said:

I’m sure you’re right, but some of the hidden benefits may be intangibles, or hard to quantify, and may have been medium term. Or beneficial to the ongoing Virgin and Stobart businesses.

Things like:

Moving staff on to Stobart T&C. Quite large savings, but flybe staff have been resistant.

Having a Virgin feeder network.

Shedding unprofitable routes.

Shedding head office staff.

Stobart operating out of Southend as Virgin Connect, instead of Stobart, after its flybe franchise ended.

Maintain traffic volume at Stobart Airports ( Southend )

And, of course we don’t know if Virgin or Cyrus have actually put in their £70 million, or whether they got cold feet as losses couldn’t be stemmed.

Of course Virgin have form for not managing to get feeder lines to work, and whilst Stobart Air has a happier financial position than the same name, but differently owned, trucking business, it’s Genesis from Aer Arran was messy.

All the above is speculative. But the pprune stuff is demonstrably wrong.

Stay tuned. There may be a legal challenge to the rescue...

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7 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

Airport tax bill to be deferred to keep Flybe in the air. Seems a tad unfair to other airlines

All airlines can apply for this.

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15 hours ago, Manxberry said:

Looks like HRMC were already helping them out by offering them an annual return rather than the monthly return that is required of everyone else. https://www.gov.uk/money/air-passenger-duty

I see FlyBe do 350,000 passengers through Ronaldsway, so ~175,000 departing passengers all paying £13 a go is £2.25 million they must owe the IOM Government. 

 

Seems corrupt to me, offering one airline something that others don't get. 

Why is it corrupt? It's exactly how you want your government to work, to be flexible enough to protect companies and jobs in the short term. It's a temporary fix to ensure long term health.

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14 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's the way it works already, if you think about it.  If you book an advance ticket and the APD rate is then announced to rise before you travel,  you don't have to pay any extra provided the sector has been ticketed, which I think is the tax date for the transaction.  In most cases that will be when the flight is booked.

 

As you will see from the summary in post 1 below, airlines had different policies on how to treat amended APD 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=4018074#post4018074

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=349155

Flybe:
Quote:

As you may have heard in the news over the past few weeks, the Chancellor announced Airport Passenger Duty (APD) for short haul flights has increased 100% from £5 to £10 for each departing passenger per flight. The UK Government is responsible for implementing and collecting APD tax.

Flybe, along with other airlines, has lobbied strongly against this increase, but sadly to no avail. We are particularly disappointed that it is being applied to customers who already booked their flight prior to the Chancellor's announcement coming into effect on 11th December and are flying from the 1st of February onwards.

Regrettably, this means you are required to pay the additional APD. Your additional APD Payment MUST be made no later than 7 days prior to your departure.

British Airways.
No extra charges as the airline has agreed to absorb the 11million tax.

Easyjet
Passengers will be sent up to two emails telling them to pay or will be forced to pay at check in.

Monarch
Passengers will be send an email telling them to pay thru an online booking system. Those that fail to pay will be charged at check in or prevented from boarding and offered a refund.

Ryanair
Passengers will be sent an email and if they have not paid by the day before their flight, they will not be able to fly.  

Jet2
Passengers are being contacted by email to warn them that the additional tax will be taken from their credit cards. 

First Choice
Those who have booked a flight-only will have to pay the tax at check in desk. Those who booked a package holiday will not have to pay as travel regulations say operators have to absorb the first 2 per cent of surcharges once a booking is made.

Virgin Atlantic
Will charge passengers but has not decided how to collect it.

Thomas Cook
Is yet to clarify wether it will collect the tax from passengers. The company is awaiting advice from its legal team.

Lufthansa
Has alerted travel agents by letter, but has not contacted passengers. Holidaymakers will have to pay the tax at check-in.

BMI
Is yet to decide wether it will charge customers for the tax.

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It now emerges that HMG will be supporting Flybe with UK taxpayers money because it is seen as a strategically important airline.  It is obviously of much greater strategic importance and so I believe that the Manx government should pay part of the support.

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1 minute ago, Rog said:

It now emerges that HMG will be supporting Flybe with UK taxpayers money because it is seen as a strategically important airline.  It is obviously of much greater strategic importance and so I believe that the Manx government should pay part of the support.

1. Your opinion doesn't matter

2. Maybe you should write an ignorable letter

2. How are you getting on with the DVLA?

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2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

1. Your opinion doesn't matter

2. Maybe you should write an ignorable letter

2. How are you getting on with the DVLA?

1) i suspect that my opinion is not mine alone.  I do hope it has an effect

2)  Actually I was thinking of getting a few friends and acquaintances write to our MP's 

3). I phoned the DVLA on Monday and was told that I could expect a formal reply this week but the delay has been because of the complexity of the issue.

As soon as I have a formal reply I will post it irrespective of what it is.

 

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