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44 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said:

What we all need is truth rather than myth in our political discourse.

Well said. When does it start? 

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6 hours ago, Chris Thomas said:

Two questions which I hope the moderators and the long-time users will answer please:

  • how many and what sort of use does Manxforums get, and how has this use changed over the years as it seems to have done; and
  • what do the guidelines really mean about the scope and nature of each topic, as it is frustrating to post as interesting contributions sometimes seem to get lost in a deluge of off-topic comments and discussion threads sometimes start in topics with different headers from the apparent main themes of the discussion?

I suppose that depends on what purpose you think MF has Mr Thomas as an MHK. It’s no more or less valid than listening to pub talk and in fact a lot of what gets said on here could be the transcript of any pub political conversation people have had in the last 20 years so as a platform it’s about as valid as that. I think too many people try to attach a significance to MF which does not actually exist and which has never existed. Has it gone off in the last few years? I don’t know, has it ever had any glory days? It used to be pretty much an anonymous whistle blowing service for civil servants and people who had problems with various MHKs to air their dirty laundry in public. Has it actually moved on in times where social media has taken great leaps in terms of assisting political engagement? Not really and as an example it’s somewhat ironic that a lifetime banned MF poster (Vader) has had much more success on Facebook than many of those who still skulk in the shadows bickering with people and lighting fires on here. To me it’s some of the hard core participators here who hold the forum back as they won’t change their views and they won’t put their own name to their views either. Also when they don’t like some things they hear they tend to just gang up on posters to drown them out because it’s easy. I’d also note that to be fair it also seemed to get a lot worse after one MHK in particular seemed to assume it was a personal platform as part of a wider (and doomed to this day) social media engagement strategy so politicians also play their part in where we are. 

If you’re looking for a credible platform for political debate (which I think you are suggesting - and which would be much needed) then you probably need to at least start with a platform where every account isn’t by default a pseudonym account that could be set up by anyone - not least by a political rival, or someone affiliated to a political rival, who could be using the account simply to score points. Therefore I think maybe you’re focusing in the wrong direction as MF is pretty much a dead loss there - it’s a moaners platform but only for a handful of specific moaners (many of whom work for IOMG) who like to get their own way and who don’t want to be directly associated with their moaning or general egocentric behaviour either. Twitter is a much better platform In my opinion and while there are some anonymous accounts there too you seem to engage fine and get your points across fine. I’m not sure how effective MF would ever have been in getting to a wider audience when there are much better used and better adopted platforms out there. Vader learned - he was banned on here for allegedly being a keyboard warrior and (according to the mods anyway) a persistent nuisance and then went off and did something that was equally flawed as an engagement platform but at least people do engage more openly with it (when he’s not going off on one and taking out petty vendettas on politicians he doesn’t like). It has to be said though that it’s largely the people who cause problems on there by being such utter vindictive and argumentative dicks who also cause most of the problem on here too behind anonymous accounts. That’s just the way it is. There’s also as many fake FB profiles on there that people hide behind as there probably are duplicate accounts on here. 

One final point which I hope you view as constructive feedback. You often answer questions put to you with a different question, or by supplying a different set of criteria other than the criteria presented in the question asked and that seems to get people’s backs up. Answering a straight question with a straight answer is normally the best way to avoid conflict and maybe you should try to do that a bit more? You are a great social media engager though and you do try to do it in the best way with the best intentions. I also can’t help but observe that this question (and the general craziness re-emerging on MF in the last few weeks) is being asked in the run up to the next general election campaigns and as an observation I can see why some people might want to clear the decks here to perhaps start get clearer messaging across. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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6 minutes ago, quilp said:

Well said. When does it start? 

It's the new, improved #GE2021 political discourse

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CT ...I think that the disasters that have been the consequence of govt. activity are well documented, as are the govt. responses which seek to justify them. Based on that point of view I believe that our pessimism about the govt. is well founded

Edited by doc.fixit
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55 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I suppose that depends on what purpose you think MF has Mr Thomas as an MHK. It’s no more or less valid than pub talk and in fact a lot of what gets said on here could equally be the transcript of any pub political conversation people have had in the last 20 years so as a platform it’s about as valid as that. I think too many people try to attach a significance to MF which does not actually exist and which has never existed. Has it gone off in the last few years? I don’t know, has it ever had any glory days? It used to be pretty much an anonymous whistle blowing service for civil servants and people who had problems with various MHKs to air their dirty laundry in public. Has it actually moved on in times where social media has taken great leaps in terms of assisting political engagement? Not really and as an example it’s somewhat ironic that a lifetime banned MF poster (Vader) has had much more success on Facebook then many of those who still skulk in the shadows on here bickering with people and lighting fires. To me it’s the hard core participators here who hold the forum back as they won’t change their views and they won’t put their own name to their views either. Also when they don’t like some things they hear they tend to just gang up on posters to drown them out. I’d also note that to be fair it also seemed to get a lot worse after one MHK in particular seemed to assume it was a personal platform as part of a wider (and doomed to this day) social media engagement strategy so politicians also play their part in where we are. 

If you’re looking for a credible platform for political debate (which I think you are suggesting - and which would be much needed) then you probably need to at least start with a platform where every account isn’t by default a pseudonym account that could be set up by anyone - not least by a political rival, or someone affiliated to a political rival, who could be using the account simply to score points. Therefore I think maybe you’re focusing in the wrong direction as MF is pretty much a dead loss there - it’s a moaners platform but only for a handful of specific moaners (many of whom work for IOMG) who like to get their own way. Twitter is a much better platform In my opinion and while there are some anonymous accounts there too you seem to engage fine and get your points across fine. I’m not sure how effective MF would ever have been in getting to a wider audience when there are much better used and better adopted platforms out there. Vader learned, he was banned on here for being a keyboard warrior and (according to the mods anyway) a persistent nuisance and then went off and did something that was equally flawed as an engagement platform but at least people do engage more openly with it (when he’s not going off on one and taking out petty vendettas on politicians he doesn’t like). It has to be said though that it’s largely the people who cause problems on there by being such utter vindictive and argumentative dicks who also cause most of the problem on here too. That’s just the way it is. 

One final point which I hope you view as constructive feedback. You often answer questions put to you with a different question, or by supplying a different set of criteria other than the criteria presented in the question asked and that seems to get people’s backs up. Answering a straight question with a straight answer is normally the best way to avoid conflict and maybe you should try to do that more? You are a great social media engager though and you do try to do it in the best way with the best intentions. I also can’t help but observe that this question (and the general craziness re-emerging on MF in the last few weeks) is being asked in the run up to the next general election campaigns and as an observation I can see why some people might want to clear the decks here to perhaps start get clearer messaging across. 

The £1m 'cash for no questions' Manx Radio deal has effectively killed local media as vehicles of political policy discussion, so it's going to have to move to social media if it is to have any currency at all

[many present Tynwald members would be quite happy for there to no public discussion of what they view to be their 'patch']

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Chris Thomas.  Firstly can I thank you and complement you as at least stand above the parapet and engage and try to explain or justify government policy or stand. Much appreciated and so wish more would do so. In my opinion though there is still nowhere near the necessary honesty and openness from government and ministers and for sure zero accountability. This is what annoys most more than anything as it seems it's a closed shop and you never get the story and honesty behind the problems or policy. Hate to say it but DOI  being the chief culprit recently . At the end of the day people understand issues can arise , but lessons are never learnt despite claims to the contrary and we all feel whatever happens ,we the general public pick up the tab. A poster above also made the point that you all are out of touch with reality and I think this is a very valid point. Tynwald and CS are almost institutionalised and maybe a perception from the public is that because you move in a protected enviromemt they really don't understand the repercussions of getting things wrong so necessary accountability doesn't exist. While I'm not the brightest in many ways neither am I stupid but often I struggle to understand explanations and it would seem smoke and mirrors behind every justification . Yes I know that's hard to address but interesting to see a list of staff in one area of government published by someone last week and  all had degrees and the likes . The General public hasn't so sometimes the retoric is very hard to understand . How about one day if a department just came out and said ... we're  sorry !! We messed up / got it wrong etc etc ! How refreshing and we would be hearing the truth in most cases .  People are completely dissatisfied with lots of areas not least the fact you all can find money seemingly for anything someone dreams up but not address issues that affect them daily , mental health , poverty issues , state of roads in less important areas , waiting lists ,CS pension deficit , waste costs , rates rises and rejigging , I'm not convinced that the new rate policy will not cost lots of people more , and sadly loads of other issues. You yourself,  promised me last March that the Radar issue at the airport would have a announcement in the next month or so . It still hasn't happened ! Nearly 1 year later !! This sort of thing just adds to the general public apathy towards you and your fellow MHK's /MLC's . Sadly this will be shown completely in the next election... pheewww sorry for long post and hope you can understand my ramblings and concerns and hopefully insight .

 

 

Edited by Numbnuts
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51 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

The £1m 'cash for no questions' Manx Radio deal has effectively killed local media as vehicles of political policy discussion, so it's going to have to move to social media if it is to have any currency at all

[many present Tynwald members would be quite happy for there to no public discussion of what they view to be their 'patch']

We’ve also seem various laws passed recently giving more powers in relation to social media control also. 

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20 hours ago, Chris Thomas said:

That is what Treasury started from their figures. Economic Affairs could estimate that from Household Income and Expenditure Survey I believe, the extensive survey which is carried out every five years or so.

So with all the data that is carried out from your department, nobody thought it might be a good idea to see how many                                                   

pensioners live solely off the state pensions.                                                                                                                                                                                                        

Is it like free school meals please don't calculate the figures as it shows us in a bad light.                                                                                                                    

But we can tell you how many people travel to the island for TT and what they spend, somebody has got their prorities

wrong.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    

What is Juan Watterson actual doing looking into poverty, if he hasn't got these kind of statistics or has he ?  

Edited by Holte End
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27 minutes ago, Holte End said:

                                                                                                                                                                                           

What is Juan Watterson actual doing looking into poverty,

He's going to the Age Concern shop in Port Erin and attempting to dress himself up for less than a fiver. 

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With 6000 quid expenses, he can get a neat set of Leopard skin stilettos for that!!!!

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Further to the MF responses above, the Govt only tend to go public when they have their favoured policy in place. We believe, CTs calls for a more responsible comment, would not change the Govts position already in place.

The initial response of any Dept to a problem is,...'|There isn't a problem, followed by a quick weeks re-think, then a statement that changes have already been put in place and the Dept knew all along about the problem. When, really, the dept only re-acted to comment and doesn't really change it's policy due to this public comment.

 

Perhaps the Mods should sign every MHK up to a MF account, from their e-mail address??? and then we can see who, of our elected representatives is willing to enter into public debate, with regard the Govts performance and their own contribution to the inhouse and public debate.

WE elect them, let them respond to their electorate!!!

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2 hours ago, Kopek said:

Further to the MF responses above, the Govt only tend to go public when they have their favoured policy in place. We believe, CTs calls for a more responsible comment, would not change the Govts position already in place.

The initial response of any Dept to a problem is,...'|There isn't a problem, followed by a quick weeks re-think, then a statement that changes have already been put in place and the Dept knew all along about the problem. When, really, the dept only re-acted to comment and doesn't really change it's policy due to this public comment.

 

Perhaps the Mods should sign every MHK up to a MF account, from their e-mail address??? and then we can see who, of our elected representatives is willing to enter into public debate, with regard the Govts performance and their own contribution to the inhouse and public debate.

WE elect them, let them respond to their electorate!!!

Isn’t outing somebody against MF rules?

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12 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Isn’t outing somebody against MF rules?

Presumably Mr Thomas outed himself by using the MF pseudonym ‘Chris Thomas’ next to an avatar depicting the picture of Chris Thomas? 

This is why Facebook is a better platform as really (despite the number of fake profiles on a certain FB group) the basic assumption is that the views are expressed by known people politicians and voters alike. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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