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19 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Presumably Mr Thomas outed himself by using the MF pseudonym ‘Chris Thomas’ next to an avatar depicting the picture of Chris Thomas? 

This is why Facebook is a better platform as really (despite the number of fake profiles on a certain FB group) the basic assumption is that the views are expressed by known people politicians and voters alike. 

Referring to your final paragraph and not Chris Thomas :flowers:

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6 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Referring to your final paragraph 

In what way are you referring to it? I don’t see any Neil Down in the phone book. 

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15 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

In what way are you referring to it? I don’t see any Neil Down in the phone book. 

Ever heard of ex-directory...:rolleyes:

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Waffle and more waffle...what are you doing about the pension pot that is growing at a ridiculous rate of knots, possibly the biggest ponzi scheme known to man, what are you doing about social housing shortage implementing a rigorous oversee of just who should be entitled to live in one i.e means testing these are just some of the stuff getting kicked into the long grass.   Hopefully we will get politicians brave enough to tackle our real problems when the election happens.

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17 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

No I’d have thought you’d have opted to display name. 

Why? so people like you can plague me with nuisance calls... :shuriken:

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5 hours ago, hissingsid said:

Waffle and more waffle...what are you doing about the pension pot that is growing at a ridiculous rate of knots, possibly the biggest ponzi scheme known to man, what are you doing about social housing shortage implementing a rigorous oversee of just who should be entitled to live in one i.e means testing these are just some of the stuff getting kicked into the long grass.   Hopefully we will get politicians brave enough to tackle our real problems when the election happens.

‘Growing pension pot’?  If only there was a fund of any size. Public sector pensions reform has largely happened and the future and legacy are being managed well. Not sure what you misunderstand? In terms of social housing, you obviously missed five year fixed tenancies which were put in place six years ago and missed the reviews five years on which have resulted in some tenants paying higher rent to stay. Waiting lists are shorter, less than a year on average in many cases.

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On 2/2/2020 at 3:52 PM, Holte End said:

So with all the data that is carried out from your department, nobody thought it might be a good idea to see how many                                                pensioners live solely off the state pensions.                                                                                                                                                                                                       

 

As I wrote, Economic Affairs could estimate that from Household Income and Expenditure Survey I believe, the extensive survey which is carried out every five years or so. Not sure why you write in such a way that suggests you think all civil servants are thick and lazy. In summary that data is surveyed by the tiny team of statisticians, but the sort of ‘all knowing’ data collection you envisage is properly unlawful. 

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2 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said:

 

As I wrote, Economic Affairs could estimate that from Household Income and Expenditure Survey I believe, the extensive survey which is carried out every five years or so. Not sure why you write in such a way that suggests you think all civil servants are thick and lazy. In summary that data is surveyed by the tiny team of statisticians, but the sort of ‘all knowing’ data collection you envisage is properly unlawful. 

If they were bright and driven....

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On 2/2/2020 at 1:00 PM, thesultanofsheight said:

I suppose that depends on what purpose you think MF has Mr Thomas as an MHK. It’s no more or less valid than listening to pub talk and in fact a lot of what gets said on here could be the transcript of any pub political conversation people have had in the last 20 years so as a platform it’s about as valid as that. I think too many people try to attach a significance to MF which does not actually exist and which has never existed. Has it gone off in the last few years? I don’t know, has it ever had any glory days? It used to be pretty much an anonymous whistle blowing service for civil servants and people who had problems with various MHKs to air their dirty laundry in public. Has it actually moved on in times where social media has taken great leaps in terms of assisting political engagement? Not really and as an example it’s somewhat ironic that a lifetime banned MF poster (Vader) has had much more success on Facebook than many of those who still skulk in the shadows bickering with people and lighting fires on here. To me it’s some of the hard core participators here who hold the forum back as they won’t change their views and they won’t put their own name to their views either. Also when they don’t like some things they hear they tend to just gang up on posters to drown them out because it’s easy. I’d also note that to be fair it also seemed to get a lot worse after one MHK in particular seemed to assume it was a personal platform as part of a wider (and doomed to this day) social media engagement strategy so politicians also play their part in where we are. 

If you’re looking for a credible platform for political debate (which I think you are suggesting - and which would be much needed) then you probably need to at least start with a platform where every account isn’t by default a pseudonym account that could be set up by anyone - not least by a political rival, or someone affiliated to a political rival, who could be using the account simply to score points. Therefore I think maybe you’re focusing in the wrong direction as MF is pretty much a dead loss there - it’s a moaners platform but only for a handful of specific moaners (many of whom work for IOMG) who like to get their own way and who don’t want to be directly associated with their moaning or general egocentric behaviour either. Twitter is a much better platform In my opinion and while there are some anonymous accounts there too you seem to engage fine and get your points across fine. I’m not sure how effective MF would ever have been in getting to a wider audience when there are much better used and better adopted platforms out there. Vader learned - he was banned on here for allegedly being a keyboard warrior and (according to the mods anyway) a persistent nuisance and then went off and did something that was equally flawed as an engagement platform but at least people do engage more openly with it (when he’s not going off on one and taking out petty vendettas on politicians he doesn’t like). It has to be said though that it’s largely the people who cause problems on there by being such utter vindictive and argumentative dicks who also cause most of the problem on here too behind anonymous accounts. That’s just the way it is. There’s also as many fake FB profiles on there that people hide behind as there probably are duplicate accounts on here. 

One final point which I hope you view as constructive feedback. You often answer questions put to you with a different question, or by supplying a different set of criteria other than the criteria presented in the question asked and that seems to get people’s backs up. Answering a straight question with a straight answer is normally the best way to avoid conflict and maybe you should try to do that a bit more? You are a great social media engager though and you do try to do it in the best way with the best intentions. I also can’t help but observe that this question (and the general craziness re-emerging on MF in the last few weeks) is being asked in the run up to the next general election campaigns and as an observation I can see why some people might want to clear the decks here to perhaps start get clearer messaging across. 

Thanks so much for such a rich contribution to this thread.

Any good election depends on good discussion of public policy facts and options, and ‘pub talk’ is an in important forum for that discussion, so if Manxforums is pub talk it is one possible forum. 
 

Fair point about political pivoting. In response i) a Minister is subject to collective responsibility, and ii) a lot of politics is grey rather than black and white. But yes - you are right.

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On 2/2/2020 at 2:01 PM, Donald Trumps said:

The £1m 'cash for no questions' Manx Radio deal has effectively killed local media as vehicles of political policy discussion, so it's going to have to move to social media if it is to have any currency at all

[many present Tynwald members would be quite happy for there to no public discussion of what they view to be their 'patch']

Manx Radio, IOM Newspapers and other media are good vehicles for policy discussion. Government gets as frustrated with the presentation of issues as you and others seem to do, so the coverage is obviously balanced!!!

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Just now, Chris Thomas said:

Any good election depends on good discussion of public policy facts and options, and ‘pub talk’ is an in important forum for that discussion, so if Manxforums is pub talk it is one possible forum. 

Fair point about political pivoting. In response i) a Minister is subject to collective responsibility, and ii) a lot of politics is grey rather than black and white. But yes - you are right.

I admire your optimism on the first point. It’s unlikely to be rewarded ;)

On the final point you have to remember that you are standing as an independent candidate. People don’t care about collective responsibility and what COMIN think. They care what you think as they’re not voting for COMIN. 

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15 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

People don’t care about collective responsibility and what COMIN think. They care what you think as they’re not voting for COMIN. 

You might be right. But your statement is one that I hope is tested at the general election in September 2021. The Programme for Government 2016-2021 is clear and each ‘independent’ candidate can and should make their pitch in terms of which parts of it they applaud or criticise, and how they intend to try to take it forward or to change it. 

Edited by Chris Thomas
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8 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said:

As I wrote, Economic Affairs could estimate that from Household Income and Expenditure Survey I believe, the extensive survey which is carried out every five years or so. Not sure why you write in such a way that suggests you think all civil servants are thick and lazy. In summary that data is surveyed by the tiny team of statisticians, but the sort of ‘all knowing’ data collection you envisage is properly unlawful. 

I'm not sure the collation of data is unlawful but how you use it could well be.

I don't think all CS/PS are thick and lazy but you must admit for a small island there are an awful lot of them! Which happens to make them the biggest political lobby on the island. What are they all doing?

Another major grievance is that CS/PS are handed grades that are frankly outrageous for the responsibilities, manpower, budgets involved. I mean, a Chief Constable with associated hangers on etc etc. Massive pension and so forth. Why?

Upper House is a gilded cage for failed politicos with too much time on their hands and a penchant for trousering lots of public money for doing nothing other than annoying taxpayers by their very presence.

Enough soapbox for now.

Regards

A well wisher

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18 minutes ago, Chris Thomas said:

You might be right. But your statement is one that I hope is tested at the general election in September 2021. The Programme for Government 2016-2021 is clear and each ‘independent’ candidate can and should make their pitch in terms of which parts of it they applaud or criticise, and how they intend to try to take it forward of to change it. 

I am right. The voters don’t see it like that I can assure you and any attempt at education you might wish to do around that point will largely be a waste of effort. They vote for individual people and their individual beliefs and policies (ie, perceived personal integrity) and little else. There isn’t even a guarantee that an MHK will get a ministerial post so stated adherence or otherwise with the already set programme for government is largely irrelevant. In fact I’d say those who say they agree with it the most will probably get the least votes. I’m not sure you appreciate how many people simply don’t accept or believe in the general trajectory that has been set for government. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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