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Max Power

50mph limit to be adopted?

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5 hours ago, Amadeus said:

Take that away and you might as well go to Silverstone because it will just be like a county of England.

The roads are for getting from A to B.

Silverstone and Brands Hatch both do fantastic weekend events for people who want to race.

Edited by pongo
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1 minute ago, pongo said:

The roads are for getting from A to B.

Silverstone and Brands Hatch both do fantastic weekend events for people want to race.

This.

a road, in law, is ‘an ordinary line of communication’

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The time difference over a mile (slightly longer than Sulby Straight) between travelling at 40 mph as opposed to 50 mph is 18 seconds. Where is anyone travelling to that it would be vital to save 18 seconds over that distance? 

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I was very disappointed in the Chief Minister's comments on Manx Radio today - basically saying each road is considered individually. This is a lie of course, as if the Mountain Road had been considered at all, there would be an enforced limit on it, due to the number of speed related RTC's. The problem with having no overall limit is that it breeds a culture of 'speed is OK'. Having no limit on roads such as the Mountain Road, basically tells people "Drive as fast as you like, it's fine". But it's not fine. It's not just the Mountain Road and the TT course, there's loads around the island - the coast road, Ramsey-Jurby, Gansey, Poortown etc. It averages at around 1000 accidents per year, involving roughly 1500 vehicles - that's a lot of single vehicle accidents, where people manage to chuck their own car off the road. There are 2 reasons to do that - going to fast, and distraction (looking at your phone instead of where you're going). I'm looking forward to seeing some actual action to match the road safety strategy, as so far it's just words on paper.

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I would like to see the research that suggests that 50 mph is safer than 60 mph on all roads. I doubt it could be proven. Bad driving is key but speed is a factor, of course. I think a  national Speed limit of 60 mph would be accepted, with lower limits in areas where particular risks exist. I suspect that some of the current limits are fairly arbitrary but most of the work is done already. Replacing unrestricted with a National 60mph limit would not be so onerous.

I don't agree that the introduction of a national limit would increase the appeal of the event. Many visitors are still seduced by the opportunity to ride at high speed, where it is currently allowed and, sometimes, where it isn't. My own feeling is that the TT would see less visitors and its viability would be thrown into question, maybe not immediately but over a few years. This is in line with the likely gradual demise of high speed fossil-fuel intensive events anyway. The world and attitudes are changing. I suspect that those of our elected representatives and vested interests will change at a slower pace.

 

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1 minute ago, joebean said:

I would like to see the research that suggests that 50 mph is safer than 60 mph on all roads. I doubt it could be proven. Bad driving is key but speed is a factor, of course. I think a  national Speed limit of 60 mph would be accepted, with lower limits in areas where particular risks exist. I suspect that some of the current limits are fairly arbitrary but most of the work is done already. Replacing unrestricted with a National 60mph limit would not be so onerous.

I don't agree that the introduction of a national limit would increase the appeal of the event. Many visitors are still seduced by the opportunity to ride at high speed, where it is currently allowed and, sometimes, where it isn't. My own feeling is that the TT would see less visitors and its viability would be thrown into question, maybe not immediately but over a few years. This is in line with the likely gradual demise of high speed fossil-fuel intensive events anyway. The world and attitudes are changing. I suspect that those of our elected representatives and vested interests will change at a slower pace.

 

The research is there. Trauma exponentially increases with speed. I do however, agree. 60 is fine some routes. 

As for the seduction of speed, how can it be acceptable or right to allow the use of the public road as a fairground ride?

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I think the answer to this is to make it easier for people to get their speed kicks away from public roads. Maybe use a bit of the spare tarmac from the prom to build a proper circuit somewhere which can be used for track days, a bit like the Nurburgring? It could double as a replacement when and if road racing is hounded off the scene, a driver training centre and a proper track for local sporting events.

(Don't suggest Jurby Airfield, it's a boring place to watch and compete)

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8 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I think the answer to this is to make it easier for people to get their speed kicks away from public roads. Maybe use a bit of the spare tarmac from the prom to build a proper circuit somewhere which can be used for track days, a bit like the Nurburgring? It could double as a replacement when and if road racing is hounded off the scene, a driver training centre and a proper track for local sporting events.

(Don't suggest Jurby Airfield, it's a boring place to watch and compete)

Pretty much the Supertour concept. Marshalled, medical cover except use existing infrastructure.

Kyboshed by DOI... yes you can have a mountain closure. Set up company. Spend money. No, weve changed our minds...

Edited by Derek Flint

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2 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Pretty much the Supertour concept. Marshalled, medical cover etc.

Kyboshed by DOI....

There have been a few suggestions over the years about this. Ultimately the business cases never stacked up. I don't believe they ever will.

 

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47 minutes ago, flaps said:

I was very disappointed in the Chief Minister's comments on Manx Radio today - basically saying each road is considered individually. This is a lie of course...

You’re learning. Well done.

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12 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

The research is there. Trauma exponentially increases with speed. I do however, agree. 60 is fine some routes. 

As for the seduction of speed, how can it be acceptable or right to allow the use of the public road as a fairground ride?

I'll take your word on it Derek. As for the last question, once you factor in the fatal and serious incidents over the years, it just isn't. But there again, the morality issues around road racing and the TT in particular have always been difficult to square. It is often side-stepped with concepts of freedom and individual responsibility. The elephant in the room is Revenue, but that is something that is too vulgar to talk about in Government.

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53 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

As for the seduction of speed, how can it be acceptable or right to allow the use of the public road as a fairground ride?

Probably in the same way that there's known drug users over here that the police do nothing about or about as acceptable as letting a woman be physically assaulted more than once by the same person.

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15 hours ago, Terminal said:

Don’t know, but it was last year that someone died in a 50 limit at the Creg.

What we need is a 49 mph limit - Sorted! - no more incidents at 50mph

or looking at it from a statistical point of view - if you raise the speed limit on Manx roads to 1000mph, then you have zero incidents over 1000mph and therefore have a 100% safety record. (load of cobblers I know, but this is what the crabinet office seem to do all the time)

Edited by manxy
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12 hours ago, joebean said:

I would like to see the research that suggests that 50 mph is safer than 60 mph on all roads. I doubt it could be proven. Bad driving is key but speed is a factor, of course. I think a  national Speed limit of 60 mph would be accepted, with lower limits in areas where particular risks exist. I suspect that some of the current limits are fairly arbitrary but most of the work is done already. Replacing unrestricted with a National 60mph limit would not be so onerous.

I don't agree that the introduction of a national limit would increase the appeal of the event. Many visitors are still seduced by the opportunity to ride at high speed, where it is currently allowed and, sometimes, where it isn't. My own feeling is that the TT would see less visitors and its viability would be thrown into question, maybe not immediately but over a few years. This is in line with the likely gradual demise of high speed fossil-fuel intensive events anyway. The world and attitudes are changing. I suspect that those of our elected representatives and vested interests will change at a slower pace.

 

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/speed_is_a_central_issue_in_road_safety/speed_and_accident_risk_en

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