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thesultanofsheight

Poo dunnit?

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In all fairness and honesty, drugs are drugs and to most extent varying degrees classes of illegality. Drugs are causing problems both for the police in terms of crime and also the effects of drugs upon the end user, as regards Mental Health. The sad thing is we have a prominent and supposed medical expert - rather a know it all! - who is obsessed with introducing the right to die debate/legislation to the island. I’m quite convinced that come the General Election, this ‘expert’ will view himself as the next Chief Minister. Perhaps he could get off his lofty perch or his over pampered arse, and look at the Mental Health crisis which is sadly affecting this island, sadly causing people take their own lives.

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2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Yeah, can see a heroin addict rattling away 'can't get me smack, I'll just take some LSD instead'. Cos they're the same yeah?

Try reading the first ten words again eh!

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When will the first beggars arrive on Strand Street? Won't happen? Heard that said in so many UK cities.

20 years ago I heard people say on the Isle of Man that heroin won't reach here. Ever.

The problem can't be nipped in the bud, too late for that. The tentacles have well taken a hold.

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29 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Try reading the first ten words again eh!

I've read them. You seem to have just made something up. Would you like to expand on why the supply of other class A drugs would rise if you were somehow able to stop heroin coming in? Cos I can't see an actual reason this would happen.

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Cocaine is addictive to a degree and ecstacy is recreational. They do not destroy lives like heroin does, nor do they create the sociological problems which the island will suffer very soon if we don't get a grip on it. Peddling heroin is dealing in death and misery and we are beginning to see a lot of related crime committed by those who crave it. 

Do you have any evidence that heroin use on the Island is increasing (or increasingly dangerous)?  Certainly use in the UK seems to have been declining for quite a long period and cocaine and related drugs seem to be dominating the market more.  Heroin is very dangerous (because of it's variable quality even without bodily fluids) and has been responsible, at least partly, for many drug deaths on the Island - but that isn't a new thing.  It may even be that initiatives such as the naxolene project may be reducing them.

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5 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Do you have any evidence that heroin use on the Island is increasing (or increasingly dangerous)?  Certainly use in the UK seems to have been declining for quite a long period and cocaine and related drugs seem to be dominating the market more.  Heroin is very dangerous (because of it's variable quality even without bodily fluids) and has been responsible, at least partly, for many drug deaths on the Island - but that isn't a new thing.  It may even be that initiatives such as the naxolene project may be reducing them.

I discovered that someone I knew was dependant on heroin. It was unbelievable as he seemed to be such a switched on and decent bloke. He was able to make a phone call to one of several people who would deliver £20.00 worth (enough for one hit) to his door. He told me of all sorts of people who begin using it recreationally and end up hooked. He had been away to all sorts of places to try and kick the habit but once back home, the dealers move back in on their prey. He's dead now.

There doesn't appear to be a shortage and there are increasing numbers of heroin related arrests. Maybe the drug rehabilitation charities could give you better information but I am reliably told that heroin use has increased 100% over the past ten years, it has a hold now and a lot of petty crime is heroin related. It is going to get a lot worse if we are not careful. 

Treatment amounts to putting people on a heroin substitute, all that does is keep them in the medicated hell that they are trying to escape. 

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1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

I've read them. You seem to have just made something up. Would you like to expand on why the supply of other class A drugs would rise if you were somehow able to stop heroin coming in? Cos I can't see an actual reason this would happen.

Of course you don't see it happening because it doesn't suit your argument. If - and it's an impossible if, the authorities completely stopped the flow of heroin, what do you think the druggies would do next - go cold turkey?

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1 minute ago, Neil Down said:

Of course you don't see it happening because it doesn't suit your argument. If - and it's an impossible if, the authorities completely stopped the flow of heroin, what do you think the druggies would do next - go cold turkey?

They'd be on Methadone supplied by the DHSS or on some other opiate obtained illegally, the other drugs are not a substitute when you are an addict.

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Do you have any evidence that heroin use on the Island is increasing (or increasingly dangerous)?  Certainly use in the UK seems to have been declining for quite a long period and cocaine and related drugs seem to be dominating the market more.  Heroin is very dangerous (because of it's variable quality even without bodily fluids) and has been responsible, at least partly, for many drug deaths on the Island - but that isn't a new thing.  It may even be that initiatives such as the naxolene project may be reducing them.

I would say Max is right anecdotally about use increasing just based on some of the junkie scum I’ve come into contact with in the last few years. 

Edited by thesultanofsheight
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2 hours ago, gettafa said:

20 years ago I heard people say on the Isle of Man that heroin won't reach here. Ever.

Well they were deluded then because it was already here, 20 (and more) years ago.  I can't find anything online because there's not much available from that long ago, but here's a death from 2005 and I'm sure I remember earlier ones.    Heroin addiction has been around for a long time.

20 minutes ago, Max Power said:

There doesn't appear to be a shortage and there are increasing numbers of heroin related arrests. Maybe the drug rehabilitation charities could give you better information but I am reliably told that heroin use has increased 100% over the past ten years, it has a hold now and a lot of petty crime is heroin related. It is going to get a lot worse if we are not careful. 

Treatment amounts to putting people on a heroin substitute, all that does is keep them in the medicated hell that they are trying to escape. 

Judging by Chief Constable's Reports, there doesn't seem to be much of an increase over the last three years and the figures aren't that different from a decade ago, though it's always difficult to tell because the numbers are so low and drug statistics are dominated by the pointless campaign against cannabis.  It's a problem and a serious problem, but there's no indication it's getting worse.

It's fairly typical of the way in which drug policy has been carried out over the last century that the standard way to deal with people addicted to a serious drug (heroin) was to try to replace it with something even more addictive but less effective (methadone).  Especially when Britain already had a perfectly good system to deal with it, which was basically to accept people were addicted and supply them with heroin of reliable quality through the health service, supporting them till they felt able to come off the drug in their own time (or not).  But the 'war on drugs' meant this approach became unpopular with conservative virtue-signallers and pharmaceutical companies could make more money out of the substitutes.  Naturally heroin use and deaths soared.  I suspect if the policy was still the main way of coping with the problem, your friend would still be alive.

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2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Would you like to expand on why the supply of other class A drugs would rise if you were somehow able to stop heroin coming in? Cos I can't see an actual reason this would happen.

There would probably be some substitution among casual use (obviously a minority) and presumably an increase in related opioids.  But it's a silly hypothesis in any case because there's no way you could stop the supply chain for one drug and not for others.

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I know what Neil Down was trying to say, but as usual he was speaking from a position of ignorance.

I think I've written this before, there is a small but persistent heroin problem here, but I'd say that is true pretty much everywhere across the British Isles. It probably won't ever go away, heroin as a drug is simply too good for (some) people to ignore. You'll often hear of people post surgery or whatever mentioning dreaming away on the morphine, its basically the same thing but stronger.

Personally however, I think that a properly organised cannabis legalisation plan put into place with some of the tax proceeds used to enhance drug importation checks at ports and spent on much more thorough treatment and rehabilitation than turn up at the chemist at 10am and take a hit of methadone, that the heroin problem would slowly slip away.

Edited by TheTeapot

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1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well they were deluded then because it was already here, 20 (and more) years ago.  I can't find anything online because there's not much available from that long ago, but here's a death from 2005 and I'm sure I remember earlier ones.    Heroin addiction has been around for a long time.

 

Thinking about it, more like 25 years ago. I don't think much heroin had appeared in the newspaper reports up to the late 1990s. Handful at most if at all?

There's that many some weeks these days.

But yes Roger, they were deluded.

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3 hours ago, Neil Down said:

If - and it's an impossible if, the authorities completely stopped the flow of heroin, what do you think the druggies would do next - go cold turkey?

People will always find something else. But maybe perhaps something else less damaging than heroin? 

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