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On The Bus

Budget Bullshit Bingo (2020)

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3 hours ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

Undoubtedly it will be. The only difference between the CS pension and a failing private pension is that more of an effort is made to keep it alive. I suspect lump sums will disappear over the next few years and just a monthly amount will be payable which is only right and proper.

Lump sums should disappear immediately

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29 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Why isn't there an actual fund? Seen the state of the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund? They own half the world.

Hells bells, over $180 billion in the pot

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16 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Why isn't there an actual fund? Seen the state of the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund? They own half the world.

That’s down to a political decision taken years ago. First of all, when you introduce pensions you have people employed through the full range of career stages, from recently employed to about to retire.

The idea in U.K. public service has been that the contributions of current workers pay current pensions. It’s not unacceptable as long as contributions are sufficient.

Problem we have is two fold. Contributions have historically been too low, that’s been addressed. And retirees are now living longer. That could be addressed by reducing benefits or increasing retirement age. Both are in view.

Many of the schemes have had radical changes. Latest is the judicial scheme. Increased contributions, significantly, lump sum only through commutation. Expected longer careers to get maximum. Deemsters used not to be appointed until they approached 60, retired at 75. Now its 40’s and retire 65. Was 15 years contributions at 1.5%, now 25 years at 11% to get maximum pension.

What needs managing is the amount contributed by current employees and length of retirement draw down, with number of contributing years a side issue.

There are funded schemes for many public employee groups, but they aren’t as aggressively managed as Ontario.

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10 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Lump sums should disappear immediately

Or at least be by commutation only

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24 minutes ago, John Wright said:

. Deemsters used not to be appointed until they approached 60, retired at 75. Now its 40’s and retire 65. Was 15 years contributions at 1.5%, now 25 years at 11% to get maximum pension.

 

That's from when deemsters were - rightly so - highly respected members of the Isle of Man establishment. Of late they appear to be just another run of the mill Athol Street  lawyer (and all that that means) with a  different coloured gown and a lot of instant power.

Edited by gettafa
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36 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Lump sums should disappear immediately

From the Government perspective lump sums are great.  Average retirement age is 60.  According to the ONS a man can expect a further 25 years of life, a woman 27.  Current commutation rate is 18:1.  Put simply, if someone takes a £180,000 lump sum on retirement, that's £10,000 less per year paid out in pension over those 25 or 27 years, a net saving for the scheme.

Of course that doesn't work if it's only overweight smoking cardiac cripples that take their lump sums and retirees whose parents and grandparents all lived to be 105 don't.

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Lol that's a tanker according to shipais. Probably dropping off a week's fuel for Howard's jag.

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13 hours ago, On The Bus said:

Why can't the scheme be left to fail like so many other private pension schemes. 

 

Because the pensions are not owed by a company or some pension trustees, they are an obligation of the government.

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1 minute ago, piebaps said:

Lol that's a tanker according to shipais. Probably dropping off a week's fuel for Howard's jag.

The tanker is next to it. I doubt movements of airctaft carriers are easily trackable on shipais. 

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Indeed, but there is always that chance that the cash will run out before it is due. Plus of course, it extends the running of the Ponzi.

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What needs managing are the amounts paid out to those at the top of the pension pyramid. The whole scheme would be sustainable if it wasn't being abused by the gravy trainers. It's just too top heavy like everything else about our government and administration, and it has been creamed off for years by the senior execs. Those at the bottom are merely subsidising and funding the big payouts at the top and I wonder if the lower tiers are even getting value out of the scheme for their contributions. Somehow I don't think they are.

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1 hour ago, Phillip Dearden said:

Isn't there a chance that this would increase the total amount payable?

I would imagine for it to increase the total amount, the recipients would have to live longer. Is that not so?

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It would be interesting to find out just how accurate the much bandied expression ..."people are living longer" really is. What's the percentage comparable to when?

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