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Rog

COVID-19 UK & Beyond

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5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Not quite true.

As in the case of unskilled agricultural workers in places like, say, North Norfolk the employers were obviously willing to take on Eastern Europeans who undercut the level the indiginous workforce would turn out for. If they could be arsed that is.

Now that the Eastern Europeans have been made to feel thoroughly unwelcome and gone to catch Covid-19 elsewhere the employers find themselves caught in a trap of their own making.

So the cost of the replacements, wherever they come from, will dictate the market rate and the final selling price of the product.

"Taking back control...."

That's fine.

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2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

So you know better than the WHO?

Don't think so.

It may be the position of last resort possibly reached by default. But absolutely no way should it have ever been the start point. Unless you put economy before people of course...

Nobody ever did that. People of your persuasion dreamed it up. But it may yet be the only way in any case.

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21 minutes ago, P.K. said:

But then aren't the figures bogus because they're too high?

No - the lower the threshold salary the easier it is for someone to get a job which is valid for the visa scheme.  To get a skilled job visa, you need a job offer for a job with a salary of at least £20,480, and if it is below £25,600 they must also fulfil other criteria to gain a visa ... and all the jobs listed (apart from care assistant) are classified as shortage occupations which is one of the criteria.  So NHS workers are paid above the minimum and fit the criteria necessary for the visa scheme - the tweet is totally bogus.

21 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Still waiting for your opinion on this for starters:

2 hours ago, P.K. said:

After a weekend of being pilloried for the stupid "Herd Immunity" nonsense Johnson was back on the box with the next "phase" of the "strategy" as if abandoning the policy of a few days ago was all part of the plan. Remember the "avoid going down the pub" and all the rest of the BS? I call that indecisive dithering. What would you call it?

 

I've said repeatedly that my view is the Government is listening to advice and when advice changes it has changed its position.  I'm unclear how much of the "stupid herd immunity nonsense" is whipped up by ideologically biased reporting.  My understanding there was a policy debate between experts and this debate was settled by the modelling by Prof Ferguson at Imperial and accepted by government - all in a matter of days.  

The government has progressively tightened policies.  You'll insist in an arbitary and dithering way.  My view is they telegraphed policies and communicated in language which ramped up rapidly as the situation developed.  And yes things have developed far quicker than expected and far far quicker than the pace governments usually work at.

You seem to think the close to the entire shut down of an economy, with the huge consequences of that, in a matter of weeks with economic and social changes to mitigate those consequences is something that should have been done far quicker.

I disagree, and find your continual insistence that everything is incompetent totally overblown.  There is always a certain amount of incompetence - we are all only human after all, but your rhetoric doesn't help your argument, and in my view almost fatally weakens it.

 

 

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8 hours ago, woolley said:

And I will say once more, as you appear not to have noticed it, that herd immunity is not stupid or nonsense, and it may turn out to be our most potent and only viable defence against the virus.

Until a few days ago the Netherlands were following the herd immunity plan. People were still out and about, bars and restaurants open, but due to the extraordinarily high number of people being infected or dying (under the age of sixty with no underlying health conditions) they have now changed policy to ‘soft lockdown’. 

I don’t know if herd immunity works or not, that’s for a expert to say but I think it would be an extremely brave government to carry on when it’s losing so many people to the virus. I suppose there’s a ‘tipping point’ but how far do you let things go before that point is reached? 

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7 hours ago, woolley said:

That's fine.

I don't recall seeing on the side of a bus that the price of fresh produce would inevitably rise...?

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7 hours ago, Chinahand said:

I disagree, and find your continual insistence that everything is incompetent totally overblown.  There is always a certain amount of incompetence - we are all only human after all, but your rhetoric doesn't help your argument, and in my view almost fatally weakens it.

Of course you disagree.

Because you're biased....

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I don't recall seeing on the side of a bus that the price of fresh produce would inevitably rise...?

This is quite tiresome. 

I’ve returned here because, for the first time in a long time, there’s a calm air about the place and topics are being discussed rationally and most of the tit for tat nonsense of the past has gone.

And then there’s you. You disagree. I get that. You both do. Neither of you are going to win because there are no winners. Just opinions and we’ve heard the same ones over and over again. Like I said, it’s tiresome. 

Edited by ecobob
Typo
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8 hours ago, P.K. said:

Not quite true.

As in the case of unskilled agricultural workers in places like, say, North Norfolk the employers were obviously willing to take on Eastern Europeans who undercut the level the indiginous workforce would turn out for. If they could be arsed that is.

Now that the Eastern Europeans have been made to feel thoroughly unwelcome and gone to catch Covid-19 elsewhere the employers find themselves caught in a trap of their own making.

So the cost of the replacements, wherever they come from, will dictate the market rate and the final selling price of the product.

"Taking back control...."

No.  The logical and long delayed legislation must be brought rapidly into place compelling all unemployed people to work in any job that they are fit to do to actually DO in return for their tax payers hand outs.

If immigrants can afford to do it then our unemployed can afford to do it.  I, and an increasing number of people, are strong believers in the principle of those who will not work should not eat.

Covid-19 and BREXIT are going to have a huge effect on a great many things that have become taken for granted and will quite simply HAVE to change and our country will be a great deal better as a result.

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39 minutes ago, P.K. said:

I don't recall seeing on the side of a bus that the price of fresh produce would inevitably rise...?

Look old son, you didn't understand what had been writ on the side of that infamous bus.

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15 minutes ago, Rog said:

If immigrants can afford to do it then our unemployed can afford to do it.  I, and an increasing number of people, are strong believers in the principle of those who will not work should not eat.

Well, that's probably immaterial anyway because you've panic bought and hoarded all the food in your local area.

 

16 minutes ago, Rog said:

Covid-19 and BREXIT are going to have a huge effect on a great many things that have become taken for granted and will quite simply HAVE to change and our country will be a great deal better as a result.

I can accept that Brexit could potentially be good deal for the UK in the long term, although I cannot accept that any one can accurately predict that outcome. However, I would interested how you think Covid-19 is going to be a positive thing for the UK (or anywhere)?

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14 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

Well, that's probably immaterial anyway because you've panic bought and hoarded all the food in your local area.

 

I can accept that Brexit could potentially be good deal for the UK in the long term, although I cannot accept that any one can accurately predict that outcome. However, I would interested how you think Covid-19 is going to be a positive thing for the UK (or anywhere)?

The result of the Black Death had a huge impact on life in England that had the effect of destroying the tied labour system.  Quite what effect this present plague will have on "normal" society is impossible to predict but the economic effects will be huge if for no other reason than because of the years of austerity that will have to follow requiring a substantial contraction of the Welfare State.

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2 minutes ago, Rog said:

The result of the Black Death had a huge impact on life in England that had the effect of destroying the tied labour system.  Quite what effect this present plague will have on "normal" society is impossible to predict but the economic effects will be huge if for no other reason than because of the years of austerity that will have to follow requiring a substantial contraction of the Welfare State.

I know you're an old fashioned fellow but the World has moved on a little bit since the Black Death, even in Norfolk. Nice to see that you are so grateful and supportive of those working in the Welfare State risking their own health to protect the likes of you. You really have no shame do you (rhetorical question, I'm not interested in your answer), you need draining from the swamp.

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50 minutes ago, Rog said:

  The logical and long delayed legislation must be brought rapidly into place compelling all unemployed people to work in any job that they are fit to do to actually DO in return for their tax payers hand outs.

 

10 minutes ago, Rog said:

The [positve] result of the Black Death had a huge impact on life in England that had the effect of destroying the tied labour system.  

 

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13 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

 

 

And the problem with that is?

Both 100% factual.

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