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1 minute ago, Numbnuts said:

I have a friend who I know meets all the requirements , and is very good with keeping up with applications etc and applied right at the start , signed on your the £280 scheme accepted and it was only last Wednesday that he got th final paperwork and another application form to arrive in the post in the next day or so. Up to today he still hasn't received  a penny and I believe most forms who qualify if not all are in the same boat . I certainly know of 3 individuals who's employers are in the same boat . Something very wrong with what's gone on  

I agree I know I’m getting stick for being persistent here but I know lots of applicants similar to your example who have got nothing. Serious questions need to be asked here. We can’t expect people not to work if we have no intention of compensating them. I think a lot of people on this forum need a reality check when they push for longer lock downs. Soon the cure is going to be worse than the disease for a a lot of people who literally will be left in the position of having no cash to live on. Questions need to be asked very quickly indeed. 

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Press Release from the Rob Vine Fund   Following the cessation of Motor Sport on the Isle of Man in the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic the Directors of the Rob Vine Fund, Registered Charity No.954

@Lost Login - (and anyone else who thinks this doesn't apply to them particularly) I seem to recall you're an accountant so you can do this. Set up your own model of exponential growth in numbers

There's a lot of difficult concepts and difficult decisions being made here.  I'll have a go at a further explanation.  Possible long post ahead. First the difference between 'public health' and

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DfE....'' payments made TO DATE****''.

It would be foolish to make payments to a failing business, the purpose is to keep companies afloat. 3k to a failed co. would be an income payment to  the business owner.

Conspiracy.

The reason HQ did not tell Tynwald was so he could have the kudos of making the 'Great Announcement ' to the public himself as a fresh idea???

Trouble is, it was in the prepared speech which he waffled through and we all knew what was coming before he said it?

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2 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

I agree I know I’m getting stick for being persistent here but I know lots of applicants similar to your example who have got nothing. Serious questions need to be asked here. We can’t expect people not to work if we have no intention of compensating them. I think a lot of people on this forum need a reality check when they push for longer lock downs. Soon the cure is going to be worse than the disease for a a lot of people who literally will be left in the position of having no cash to live on. Questions need to be asked very quickly indeed. 

But the problem isn't the length of the lockdown in this instance, is it? That should be dictated by the medical conditions on the ground.

The problem here is the inability of the Govt to get promised compensation adjudicated and issued, despite announcing it getting on for four weeks ago.

It's two separate issues. 

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45 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

as our dads army civil defense couldn’t cope either

Gosh! How many boots do you have to be doing all this kicking of everyone and anything?

Now you're having a go at the poor defenseless Civil Defense!!!   :P

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20 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

But the problem isn't the length of the lockdown in this instance, is it? That should be dictated by the medical conditions on the ground.

The problem here is the inability of the Govt to get promised compensation adjudicated and issued, despite announcing it getting on for four weeks ago.

It's two separate issues. 

It’s not two separate issues with respect. We don’t have a medical emergency. The NHS has coped adequately and we have had a low number of deaths. We have enough ventilators and we have enough equipment on the ground to more than manage moving forward. Let’s remember nobody new is coming to the Island and hasn't for 6 weeks. So why are we still enforcing a lockdown? Why are we still adding to unemployment and denying people the right to work and to support their families. If we can’t incentivize people to stay in lockdown (which we can’t) all we are now doing is perpetuating and exacerbating existing economic damage. People are failing to under stand what flattening the curve is. Wrighty explained it perfectly. It’s got little to do with stopping the virus. The virus spread isn’t going to suddenly stop at some pre determined day. Flattening the curve is about padding out the inevitable deaths over a longer timeline so that the NHS can cope. That’s all lockdown is doing. If the NHS now can cope (which it can) and if it can do so for a reasonable time to come as it’s tooled up then there is no continued excuse to put people into poverty by denying them the right to support their families. It is totally destructive to pursue an active policy of long term lockdown when it’s not needed to flatten the curve anymore and when the NHS can comfortably cope with the support needed to assist virus victims. 

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5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

But the problem isn't the length of the lockdown in this instance, is it? That should be dictated by the medical conditions on the ground.

The problem here is the inability of the Govt to get promised compensation adjudicated and issued, despite announcing it getting on for four weeks ago.

It's two separate issues. 

The Salary Support Scheme (the £280 one) only went live on 16th April, and is back-dated to cover March payroll. It takes time, there are limited staff, and it has already been stated they are working weekends and bank holidays to get this set up and rolled out. They're not miracle workers. It sounds like your friends will be getting paid something, and it will be back dated to the time they were laid off or couldn't work. 

I appreciate a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck, but I do believe the Government are doing what they can. It is rubbish to be in that situation and be that person, but there are thousands of people and employers who are likely very grateful to be getting anything.

Would you prefer they relaxed the rules so that there was no accountability, and just hand out money to anyone who asks? 

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One thing that I wonder has the government in their wisdom factored in , with this back to work for construction workers , that U.K. suppliers are all still closed and most builders merchants and plumbing suppliers etc will be very low on products and with nothing likely to be able to be sourced till U.K. relaxes  their rules. I was in a local supplier yesterday who's open a few hours a day and his selves were empty pretty well . Not sure after the surge on Friday and early next week as to what builders merchants are going to do for restocking 

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5 minutes ago, Feelslike said:

The Salary Support Scheme (the £280 one) only went live on 16th April, and is back-dated to cover March payroll. It takes time, there are limited staff, and it has already been stated they are working weekends and bank holidays to get this set up and rolled out. They're not miracle workers. It sounds like your friends will be getting paid something, and it will be back dated to the time they were laid off or couldn't work. 

I appreciate a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck, but I do believe the Government are doing what they can. It is rubbish to be in that situation and be that person, but there are thousands of people and employers who are likely very grateful to be getting anything.

Would you prefer they relaxed the rules so that there was no accountability, and just hand out money to anyone who asks? 

I'm not disputing what you say or trying to criticise anybody in particular. I'm just saying that there clearly appear to be issues over getting the promised compensation issued which is inflaming the situation. Nor is it a case of "friends" due money. I'm trying to look at the bigger picture.

But as for accountability with Public Money on IoM. Hmmm.

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20 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Gosh! How many boots do you have to be doing all this kicking of everyone and anything?

Now you're having a go at the poor defenseless Civil Defense!!!   :P

Mr Newbie is not doing himself any favours. Civil Defence do a grand job in what they do. I think he may have meant the Army Reserve/TA which again, are fit for purpose and far from a 'Dad's Army' (Home Guard).

But the point he intended is fair enough. If the balloon goes up there is basically just the IoM Police and they will be busy enough.

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1 hour ago, Mr Newbie said:

The question needs to be asked as I doubt few people who thought they were ineligible would apply. So why are we turning down 50% of applicants? These are desperate people applying for a critical grants often so they can pay their staff and keep their business ticking over. It’s an absolute disgrace. This is why we are having to get people back to work as they have no intention of handing any cash out to you or me to help us through this. 

Can you show me exactly where it says that 50% of applications are being refused? It doesn't and is perhaps a good question for the media (anyone except Moulton who'll just fluff it).

The figures show that around 50% of processed applications have received a payment. Government's payment system is notoriously clunky at best so there's a good chance that many processed applications are simply in a payment queue. Instead of inventing scare stories on the internet, why not make an FOI and get some facts, or contact your local politician and get a Tynwald question raised, or even get one of the media bods to ask the question for you. You could even ring DfE and ask - its hardly a state secret.

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19 minutes ago, Feelslike said:

i appreciate a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck, but I do believe the Government are doing what they can. It is rubbish to be in that situation and be that person, but there are thousands of people and employers who are likely very grateful to be getting anything.

Why should they be grateful? Government has deprived them of an income by shutting the economy down. They are owed compensation because they are apparently helping out the NHS by giving up their income. They should not be expected to be grateful for anything. In fact people should be thanking these people for putting the needs of the NHS above their own personal financial security. This is why they should be compensated and deserve compensation. You must work for government no doubts. 

Also the approach by HMRC is totally different. It’s handing out the cash no questions asked and it made it clear it will take action on any abusers at a later date. That ensures that those who desperately need the cash flow injection get the cash flow injection ASAP without a load of form filling and background checks. If you’ve made a false claim they’ll hammer you on the other side once the world returns to normal. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

Why should they be grateful? Government has deprived them of an income by shutting the economy down. They are owed compensation because they are apparently helping out the NHS by giving up their income. They should not be expected to be grateful for anything. In fact people should be plain find these people for putting the needs of the NHS above their own personal financial security. This is why they should be compensated and deserve compensation. You must work for government no doubts. 

Also the approach by HMRC is totally different. It’s handing out the cash no questions asked and it made it clear it will take action on any abusers at a later date. That ensures that those who desperately need the cash flow injection get the cash flow injection ASAP without a load of form filling and background checks. 

I know business owners who are grateful for it, because it has supplemented the salaries they are still paying to their employees.

The country has been shut down in the hope we will get back on our feet quicker, and the Government have put financial aide in place for those who qualify for it. The full impact of the issues in other European countries, and the UK, hadn't been realised when the IOM Government decided to do that. I would rather take 4 weeks of pain and be able to go back to work, than have thousands dying and need to extend these measures for another month. 

The UK Government can quite literally print more money and increase their national debt to cover this. The Isle of Man cannot. We can't hand out money to everyone, without checking it is due, in the hopes of getting it back at some point. There is a finite resource in the Treasury and DHSC budget for this year, and if there is no revenue for a prolonged period, there is less money next year.  

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22 minutes ago, Feelslike said:

The UK Government can quite literally print more money and increase their national debt to cover this. The Isle of Man cannot. We can't hand out money to everyone, without checking it is due, in the hopes of getting it back at some point. There is a finite resource in the Treasury and DHSC budget for this year, and if there is no revenue for a prolonged period, there is less money next year.  

Yet when there’s an infinite amount of money like the £4Bn and counting owed to the government pension scheme members were all told we have to find the money to meet the bill. Now we need money we’re being told theres only a finite supply. We could fund this all easily. It’s just that we don't seem to want to try as it’s just the tax paying public and drivers of the economy suffering. It’s very clear what side of the fence you’re on :lol:

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3 minutes ago, Mr Newbie said:

Yet when there’s an infinite amount of money like the £4Bn owned to the government pension scheme were all told we have to find the money to meet the bill.

I don't know how many times this has to be explained, but here goes again.

Future pension liability is simply a calculation that tells you how much you'd need, right now, sitting in a bank account, to be able to pay all the pensions for all the current and future pensioners in the scheme from now until they are all dead.  It depends heavily on the applicable interest rate (known as the discount rate when used in so called 'Present Value' calculations) - change that and your £4Billion can become £2.5Billion at the stroke of a pen.

Fortunately, pensions don't work like that.  We don't need to have the £4Billion sitting there.  It's a relatively meaningless figure when used to suggest we as an island 'owe' that money.

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