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Coronavirus Isle of Man


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49 minutes ago, Phillip Dearden said:

I just don't think that the former teachers, police and health-service workers should take a hit because of the way our government organised its finances many years ago.

The government are forcing (by law) many private sector people to stop work but won't cover their costs - however, it's okay for (say) ex-service personnel in their 50s to take home huge pensions while STILL being fully paid for their current government jobs.....it's just wrong. If the IOMG can afford to pay the pension shortfall for the chosen few,  then they can afford to pay the salaries of the people they're forcing to stop work. 

All the government workers I personally know are still "working", getting full pay, accruing holidays AND contributing to their dreamy pensions.

 

17 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

...police contributed to there own as did fire service I believe...

But their contributions didn't even approach the benefits they actually receive (largely due to the early retirement age). This gap is covered by the tax-payer.

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17 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

do you think the general public should have to pick up the shortfall on public sector pensions .. surely that's as equally unfair as public sector who signed up to their deal. We didn't sign up to subsidize mistakes and incompetence by previous regimes   

We are all jointly responsible for government choices past, present and future in a democracy. And we do not live under a "regime".

Economic and strategic sustainability is certainly an issue in an era of modern money.

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1 hour ago, Phillip Dearden said:

 

The real problem is cashflow

 

Exactly, which is why I stated the PV calculations are relatively meaningless.  If you borrow £100,000 on a mortgage it's helpful to know that your repayments are £500 per month, not that the actuarially calculated present value of the debt is £230,000 or whatever, but next week could be £310,000 or £170,000 depending on whether the bank of England move rates up or down.  Which is why those figures are relatively meaningless.

[Disclaimer - figures pulled out of thin air for illustrative purposes and do not constitute either a firm offer of a loan, nor are they likely to be accurate in any way]

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13 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Phillip police contributed to there own as did fire service I believe . Genuine question though do you think the general public should have to pick up the shortfall on public sector pensions .. surely that's as equally unfair as public sector who signed up to their deal. We didn't sign up to subsidize mistakes and incompetence by previous regimes   

We are mixing up two separate issues.

Many Government schemes required contributions, more do now and the contributions have increased. The issue is not that employees should have contributed, it is that the contributions did not, and still do not, go into a fund so the pensions will have to be paid out of future tax revenues. Please don't all shout at me about this - I don't think it is the best way to fund pensions by a mile and I expect our current politicians are a little bit disappointed in their forebears.

Re who pays?  Well if there was an easy answer it would have come out by now. To some extent, we the public have an obligation as the money that should have gone into a fund was spent on services in those years ie we overspent. I realise this is not a satisfactory response as the public did not know they were storing a debt up for the future.

I suspect the answer will be multi-faceted, some increased taxes, some reduced services, some shaving of benefits but I don't really want to go too far as there is much detail that I am not privvy to - understandably, I am not involved.

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Wrighty.

{Disclaimer - figures pulled out of thin air for illustrative purposes and do not constitute either a firm offer of a loan, nor are they likely to be accurate in any way]

A 'classic' Classic FM footer?

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Lots of govts jobs with nice benefits was to some extent the flipside of the expansion of the offshore finance sector in the 80s. In much the same way as political nationalism was co-opted as branding in a buccaneer spirit.

Of course the island has a responsibility to deliver what was promised. Because we have all benefitted from that. Most especially the private sector - but also society as a whole.

Edited by pongo
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18 minutes ago, pongo said:

We are all jointly responsible for government choices past, present and future in a democracy. And we do not live under a "regime".

We don't live in a functioning democracy either.

Edited by Declan
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20 minutes ago, pongo said:

We are all jointly responsible for government choices past, present and future in a democracy.

We were and are indeed. Unfortunately we are not responsible for the lack of, or even removal of, accountability of those we elect. Usually by themselves.

This Island has seen many billions of pounds squandered in the last 25 years. Sometimes with nothing to show for it at all, often on projects with flawed results. Often with legacy debts left for the taxpayer to pick up the pieces. Such as the PS pension situation now. The Power Station which now puts a lump on every Rates Demand. The Peel Marina which now needs another £6M-and-rising sticking plaster stuck on it. The list goes on and on and is even being created whilst we watch (The Promenade).

I can't personally remember one resignation or dismissal in these matters. At best it's a quiet move sideways or upwards. With invariably no-one to blame and lessons to be learned.

It's not about retribution. It's about common decency and honour. And too many haven't got either. And the rest of us are paying for it. Without any say.

Every time.

Edited by Non-Believer
Typo
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15 minutes ago, Kopek said:

Wrighty.

{Disclaimer - figures pulled out of thin air for illustrative purposes and do not constitute either a firm offer of a loan, nor are they likely to be accurate in any way]

A 'classic' Classic FM footer?

Reads like something from Athol St's finest...

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This all looks increasingly not so much as badly thought-through as not thought through at all.  For example we keep on being told that there are new guidelines, but the link there is dead and I can't find them anywhere.  I can only assume that they wanted to avoid scrutiny at the Keys sitting today or they simply hadn't produced any on time.

Similarly the daily figures are being produced in the Keys rather than being released in the usual way.  The impression given is that, as in the UK,  controlling the news is seen as more important than controlling the virus.

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1 hour ago, Mr Shoe said:

The government are forcing (by law) many private sector people to stop work but won't cover their costs - however, it's okay for (say) ex-service personnel in their 50s to take home huge pensions while STILL being fully paid for their current government jobs.....it's just wrong. If the IOMG can afford to pay the pension shortfall for the chosen few,  then they can afford to pay the salaries of the people they're forcing to stop work. 

Correct many people have been asked to give up their jobs, their incomes, and their ability to provide fir themselves and their family in order to free up resources for the NHS. That is the true fact. They have stepped out of the economy as they have been forced to by government. Many will not recover from this and may now find themselves on long term benefits or lower paid work in a more fragile economy. They should be compensated quickly and adequately for that not kicked in the teeth. Everyone is out clapping for key workers. Maybe they should also be clapping for the now thousands of people who have given up everything to stay at home so that life is made a lot easier for the DHSC to manage this pandemic. Can’t see that happening if we don’t even want to bung any of them a few quid from our reserves. 

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