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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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2 hours ago, Kopek said:

PS. If the van is a six window,custom jobbie with alloys, six seats and spoilers that has never seen a tool box or a bag of cement, then it could be argued that it should not qualify as O/Hs anyway ?

Even a VW Caddy is now the best part of £30,000 for the nice specs. 

That’s just kitted out as a van too. The cheapest one comes in at over £300 a month on PCP. 

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10 minutes ago, pongo said:

The comments are a good read and intelligently address many of the points made.

Also interesting to see who has liked the article.

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10 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

Also that the only person who has done a hmmm face, is a government employee of many years with a pension most people could only dream of.

I see 3 hmmm faces so far. That's a good name for that. Many of the likes seem to be from UK based people who likely have a different perspective.

I wondered who it is aimed at and why. I found it a bit of a stretch making an analogy with the persecution of homosexuals here.

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9 hours ago, piebaps said:

No. They didn't. Read Hansard from 18 November. https://www.tynwald.org.im/business/hansard/20002020/t201118 RHG.pdf

This is what the vote was on

"further urgent consideration should be given for all arrivals to be tested for COVID-19 with additional testing to take place at intervals after arrival within the 14-day isolation period"

The motion was passed too. If Shimmins (who proposed this) wanted testing done then the motion should have reflected this. It didn't, it just asked that they think about it.

I've already pointed out that this is about as strong as you can get with a notion in parliamentary language.  Though even a more direct order might have been ignored - as was the requirement that "an Emergency Advisory Group should be set up to provide broad advice and input to support decision making in a collaborative and transparent manner."

But you're also missing the point that CoMin and co voted against this .  So they didn't think that even consideration should be given to testing.  They have to live with the consequences - unfortunately so do the rest of us.

5 hours ago, Rhumsaa said:

One aspect I would highlight is that unfortunately the people who do complain the loudest and the most often do so in a manner that when they actually make a legitimate good point it's easy for it to get lost in the noise.

Well it's always true that empty vessels make the most sound, but one of the requirements of public office is that it's wise to listen to critics, even those who are wrong about most things.  If only so you get reelected.

Instead the response we have heard simply ignore any arguments being made and insult any critics personally or (as above) claim it's really the fault of those trying to change things that they haven't done it the right way.  Rather than accept that the responsibility lies with those who are actually in charge to get things right.

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5 minutes ago, pongo said:

I see 3 hmmm faces so far. That's a good name for that. Many of the likes seem to be from UK based people who likely have a different perspective.

I wondered who it is aimed at and why. I found it a bit of a stretch making an analogy with the persecution of homosexuals here.

The likes, and hmms are mounting since it was posted here.

I still think it says what a lot of people who aren't brave enough to go against the flow are thinking.

Give it 12 months from now and I am convinced the groundswell of opinion that thinks HQ and DA are all that is good in the world will have changed.

I don't want that and wouldn't wish it on them but I do feel that having put themselves so in front of the cameras and the heroes (MBE FFS) for months, they might die on their swords given the failures recently and the possible vaccine screw-up 

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12 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

The likes, and hmms are mounting since it was posted here.

At this point relatively very few of the likes are from people based on the IOM. Perhaps that will change.

I expect that as with most 'content' most will neither like nor hmmm it.

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54 minutes ago, horatiotheturd said:

I am going to go out on a bit of a limb here, I clearly have rubbed many of you up the wrong way (ooo err matron)

I get I might have been a bit over the top in trying to get my point across but this has been awful in my house.  Genuine suicide concerns and involvement from a pretty rubbish "crisis team" on a number of occasions.

That’s all it was, fine line between sharing your opinion (open debate) and trying to force your opinion on others (you must see the world through my eyes etc) You were always well intentioned and I think most people can see that. Stress of lockdown affects us all in different ways.

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1 hour ago, horatiotheturd said:

I am going to go out on a bit of a limb here, I clearly have rubbed many of you up the wrong way (ooo err matron)

I feel a lot of what I was trying to clumsily say is turning out to be accurate?  The LinkedIn article could have been written by me, the groundswell of people who are completely hung out to dry by the lockdown and lack of financial support.

I do believe I am hit harder by this than most on here.  I and my family are really struggling with the border restrictions and when we could at least justify those with "covid free" they have now screwed that as well and I literally have not a penny of income or benefits for several weeks.

I get I might have been a bit over the top in trying to get my point across but this has been awful in my house.  Genuine suicide concerns and involvement from a pretty rubbish "crisis team" on a number of occasions.

I was never for opening everything up.  I was in favour of looking at the options that would allow a relaxation of the borders while still keeping us safe.  I believe the system we have now would allow that but the hoards want closed borders just because a case sneaked through an ineffective entry policy.

I can guess who will like this and who will laugh.  All I want is a government who actually do the best for the island rather than their own careers.

Over and out

Turdboy 

Fair play

I'm lucky in that I still have a job but for logistical reasons during this pandemic my wife and children are in the UK. I haven't seen them since October and times like Christmas were particularly hard. This unfortunate situation we now find ourselves in means that I have little or no face to face communication with anyone on a daily basis.

Of course i'd like things to be different but they just aren't. I count my blessings that we haven't suffered any familial loss and just hold onto a hope that we will get some normality at some point this year. Stay strong dude.

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The issue with loosening the border is that, quite simply, the more people you allow on to the island the greater the risk that they will bring Covid with them.

Pre-travel swabbing is simply not reliable, as Dr Ewart has repeatedly pointed out. So even if you quarantine, you won't know if someone has Covid until day 7 or day 13 tests. Which is an issue because they will be here with Covid.

Even if they're locked up in a holiday cottage or a family home, they will still be here and they will still be here with Covid. And if they get sick they'll be clogging up one of our very few ICU beds.

If we want more domestic freedom we need less freedom through the border. It really is that simple.

That said, I've reliably heard that CoMin were ready to go to level 3 in late September, and got cold feet at the last second. Just as well, barely a couple of weeks later and the UK were already talking about lockdown again.

As for the LinkedIn blog, something with that many factual errors in it simply can't be taken seriously.

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If there was no immediate prospect of vaccine, I would not agree with the current lockdown/eradication policy. Apart from the xmas testing screw up that has given us the gift of lockdown mk2, I have been reasonable content with the near normality we have enjoyed since June. From the politicians point of view it has also been very popular with the voting public. The problem comes in a few months when vaccine has been given, the sun comes out and covid case rates are low in the UK. The people in power I have spoken to know they will have to navigate how to go from having zero cases with closed borders, to then convince the public that Covid will have to be lived with, and how they subsequently manage its reintroduction into a vaccinated but scared and closed community. They currently do not know how to do it, and personally I think there are several of them are not motivated to do so as they are more concerned with losing the votes of a sizeable number of scared people.

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10 minutes ago, Annoymouse said:

That’s all it was, fine line between sharing your opinion (open debate) and trying to force your opinion on others (you must see the world through my eyes etc) You were always well intentioned and I think most people can see that. Stress of lockdown affects us all in different ways.

Absolutely. The border restrictions are tough for everyone, most people living here will have some family living in the UK or even further afield. I've not seen my kid for a year. I get why people want the borders to loosen and are desperate to find a way why it can happen and why anyone who says it can't is wrong.

Keeping Covid out involves keeping people out. The more exemptions are issued, the more likely it is someone will come with Covid. And even if they stay locked up with it, that still presents risks and challenges to the island.

And as we saw with the welder, the more people who come and come with Covid makes it more likely one will breach quarantine and spread it. We dodged a bullet with the Covid-positive welder not passing it on in the community, make no mistake.

I want open borders as much as anyone, but until the adjacent island gets a grip it leaves us where we are. I don't see another way around it. We've had six months of domestic normality here, which is six months more normality than my parents in West Yorkshire have had.

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1 hour ago, pongo said:

Also interesting to see who has liked the article.

No. It. Isn't.  This is the same old viewpoint that who you are is more important than what you say.  It isn't and it's responsible for a lot of the mess we are now in[1] and indeed for much of the other disasters that the  Manx government has landed us in recent years.

It's not really that good an article because it concentrates on one particular aspect ("Mummy can't come over to see me!") rather than the more mixed record as a whole, and so misses both context and some of the biggest failings.  Like many on here it also wants to see some sort of 'plan' but the only honest plan is actually 'Wait and see'.  Things change to fast for plans to be anything but ignored.  How did Boris's plan to give everyone a good Christmas work out?

Still at least it reminds us what a tit Juan Turner is.  Though if the writer's "sense from Manx forums and social media is that a majority of the population (perhaps a very significant majority) strongly approve of the government’s approach" he clearly hasn't been reading this one very carefully.

 

[1]  It's also responsible for most of the much bigger mess the UK is in - but that's another story.

Edited by Roger Mexico
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28 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

If there was no immediate prospect of vaccine, I would not agree with the current lockdown/eradication policy. Apart from the xmas testing screw up that has given us the gift of lockdown mk2, I have been reasonable content with the near normality we have enjoyed since June. From the politicians point of view it has also been very popular with the voting public. The problem comes in a few months when vaccine has been given, the sun comes out and covid case rates are low in the UK. The people in power I have spoken to know they will have to navigate how to go from having zero cases with closed borders, to then convince the public that Covid will have to be lived with, and how they subsequently manage its reintroduction into a vaccinated but scared and closed community. They currently do not know how to do it, and personally I think there are several of them are not motivated to do so as they are more concerned with losing the votes of a sizeable number of scared people.

You may have found the reason why they are not too bothered about getting everyone vaccinated quickly.

If they drag it out past the election they wont lose the voters that will be pissed off when we have to open the borders and just get on with living with Covid.

Some reasons to drag it out a bit more:

  • Dont we need to check the paperwork again?
  • Only vaccinate on the 29th Feb
  • The dog ate the latest batch
  • The moon has to be in its 3rd quarter
  • Its a Bank Holiday, a new one we made up like last year to dig us out of a hole

 

Edited by Boris Johnson
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