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IOM Covid removing restrictions


Filippo

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8 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

But even then, there's a way of writing that tweet that doesn't draw a big line in the sand and make the IOMG lose face by reaching out at some point.

Or just don't write the tweet.

There is, but if you're pushed into a corner you don't always think logically. I really feel for this woman. I think she's being misrepresented just by them ignoring her - if that makes sense. Does it?

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2 hours ago, horatiotheturd said:

Just watched the latest BBC news about vaccine rollout in USA, India and the UK.

The figures being quoted are astounding and the speed at which centres have been set up is phenomenal. 

Nice, simple quick and cheap facilities like drive through ones in America and Salisbury Cathedral in the UK.  The Cathedral seems perfectly fit for purpose having had some basic cubicles installed and volunteers drafted in to give out the jabs.

Bit embarrassing really, while our lot spend fortunes building facilities that will no doubt have new floor to ceiling walls, plastered, and probably papered with custom wallsllpaper and carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it to be opened twice a week, 9:30 to 4 with lunch breaks when they eventually finish it.

I am willing to offer a substantial wager with you that any purpose built IOM vaccination facilities will not be carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it. Or even only be open twice a week 9:30 to 4. Why do you feel the need to denigrate “our lot” by propagating such nonsense?

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4 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Apologies If I misunderstood you. When you said "It would probably not, because the lockdown is a political decision." in response to my question how will it assist us getting out of lockdown quicker I took that to mean you agreed it would not stop transmission and therefore lockdown quicker. You are differentiating the two and therefore suggesting that the speed of getting out of lockdown is not directly linked to the speed of transmission.

Fair enough. How will using Dr Glover's Genomic testing help cease the transmission in the IoM quicker than the current lockdown will. In my simple mind, the lockdown stops contacts between people which stops the transmission. If we  all self isolated for a period of 4/5 weeks, impractical I know, transmission is broken and end of the virus.  

I think the lockdown was brought in because our government panicked when they realised that the border restrictions, home isolation, potentially superdooper infectious strain etc all combined with busy christmas pubs could lead to total disaster. That is why I say a political decision.

The straight fact is that fast accurate genomics of the various cases picked up would have told the contact tracing team how many main lines of transmission there had been. This would make their job much easier. In at least one of the briefings Henrietta has said they've got a case with no clear line of transmission. Genomics would help link to other known clusters.

I'll try to explain with a hypothetical. I'm not sure of current numbers, or the finer details so I'll kind of make them up. 40 current active cases, of which 15 are known travelers in isolation, so we can ignore them. Of the other 25 say, 10 are linked in one cluster and 9 in another, through either family or location but no established link between the groups. Then there is another little group of 4 that the contact team can reliably put with each other, and then there are two individual cases with no idea how they have come about. This is where the genomics comes in. Can we put these different groups together or are they 5 different routes of infection? 

If they are all the same then you can be very comfortable that by isolating those people you will be closing that transmission down. But say that group of 4 is different to the others, or its one of the individuals, then you know that there is a good chance it is still out there and more work needs to be done.

Fast genomics is a very valuable tool for the purposes of contact tracing and closing down routes of transmission.

That's my understanding anyway, I hope it makes sense.

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13 minutes ago, quilp said:

Is it possible that a variant emerges that is resistant to one vaccine type, say the Pfizer version, but is not resistant to the Moderna, or the AZ? It would be of immense importance in effective treatment, in short order, if we had the ability to speedily identify the profile of which variant a person had contracted. 

There appears to be increasing concern in Covid news coverage about the speed that the virus is mutating into different variants. We now have the UK variant, the S. African variant, 2 variants from Brazil, one of which is of greater concern than the other. Maybe more too.

If it decides to mutate into something that is resistant to the vaccines currently being developed and applied this is going to be a game of catch-up for many years to come.

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3 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

Well..... I agree but playing devils advocate - if they at some level believe their stance over Rachel's then the saving face aspect is our subjective view?

It depends on what advice they are receiving to substantiate that belief.  As we know, the promised advisory committee has not been established.

The advice will also depend on the question that is being asked and, as you know very well, questions can be framed in such a way as to get the confirmatory answer.

If genomic information is not of any use to us, why are we bothering sending tests to Liverpool?  The answer from Dr Ewart was that it fed into the UK's data gathering, so of no use to us, apparently.  I can foresee that valuable input coming to an end pretty soon. 

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32 minutes ago, Lost Login said:

Thanks so the point really is That as teapot says it will not help us cease the transmission and get us out of lockdown any quicker than the current measures will.

Well actually it might.  Or more likely it might stop the need to extend lockdown for longer.  I(f say a new case appears and you can link it to an existing cluster that you know about through genomics and pick up all the likely contacts, then you don't need to think about lockdown in the same way you might if it was a new unrelated case appearing from nowhere.

Of course it also helps in such circumstances if you have good track and trace and carry out a lot of testing (in New Zealand anyone with cold symptoms is encouraged to have a test).  And that you provide good support, both financial and otherwise to those who have to isolate - so people don't have to worry about testing positive and so will be more willing to come forward for a test.

But there have been several times over the last few months in New Zealand where individual cases have appeared (usually in those working in isolation facilities) and by tracing the virus back to the person who brought it in, they were able to have life go on as normal.

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5 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

There appears to be increasing concern in Covid news coverage about the speed that the virus is mutating into different variants. We now have the UK variant, the S. African variant, 2 variants from Brazil, one of which is of greater concern than the other. Maybe more too.

If it decides to mutate into something that is resistant to the vaccines currently being developed and applied this is going to be a game of catch-up for many years to come.

My understanding, albeit not as a virologist, is that all the vaccines target the part of the vaccine that is fairly fundamental.

The spike is what the virus uses to latch onto and enter human cells, and that's the bit that your body learns to target with the vaccines. They all encode for that distinctive spike.

This is good from the perspective that if the spike changes such that the vaccine doesn't work, then the virus will most likely be unable to infect human cells.

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17 minutes ago, quilp said:

@rachomics and @wrighty Is it possible that a variant emerges that is resistant to one vaccine type, say the Pfizer version, but is not resistant to the Moderna, or the AZ? It would be of immense importance in effective treatment, in short order, if we had the ability to speedily identify the profile of which variant a person had contracted. 

I doubt it. My understanding is that all 3 vaccines present the covid spike protein to the immune system - Pfizer and Moderna through mRNA, and AZ via a modified non-replicating adenovirus. They probably used whichever sequence of the spike protein was prevalent last March or whenever they were first created. If the spike protein mutates such that it is significantly different then firstly it might not allow the virus to get in.  If it still can however, and it is different enough to evade the vaccine generated antibodies, I suspect this will be for all vaccines until they are changed. 
 

You’re confusing treatment and vaccination though. Being able to speedily identify the profile of an infected patient’s virus won’t influence which vaccine they should be given - the ship has sailed. If it turns out that covid is seasonal like flu however, we probably will end up with vaccines being developed annually to cover the most prevalent form of the virus in the off-season, in readiness to vaccinate the vulnerable for the coming winter. 

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3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I am willing to offer a substantial wager with you that any purpose built IOM vaccination facilities will not be carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it. Or even only be open twice a week 9:30 to 4. Why do you feel the need to denigrate “our lot” by propagating such nonsense?

He is trying to emphasize a point that the government has a repeated habit of over speccing and over spending, which can lead to under delivery and delay. In this instance it would appear that the government are building a semi permanent structure in the check in hall. This does not appear to be the best option to me and others. Given we are all being affected by this pandemic and subsequently the governments actions in response, I for one would like to know the rationale behind this particlar course of action.

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18 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I am willing to offer a substantial wager with you that any purpose built IOM vaccination facilities will not be carpeted with carpet with little triskellions on it. Or even only be open twice a week 9:30 to 4. Why do you feel the need to denigrate “our lot” by propagating such nonsense?

Fair enough.

Will it be up and running for when the first vaccines get here so that they can be rolled out as quickly as is humanly possible?

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9 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

My understanding, albeit not as a virologist, is that all the vaccines target the part of the vaccine that is fairly fundamental.

The spike is what the virus uses to latch onto and enter human cells, and that's the bit that your body learns to target with the vaccines. They all encode for that distinctive spike.

This is good from the perspective that if the spike changes such that the vaccine doesn't work, then the virus will most likely be unable to infect human cells.

Changing of the spike was exactly what was being discussed in one of these articles; it was felt that this has increased the ease and speed with which the virus infects.

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9 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

He is trying to emphasize a point that the government has a repeated habit of over speccing and over spending, which can lead to under delivery and delay. In this instance it would appear that the government are building a semi permanent structure in the check in hall. This does not appear to be the best option to me and others. Given we are all being affected by this pandemic and subsequently the governments actions in response, I for one would like to know the rationale behind this particlar course of action.

If it helps, there were Swales vans there last evening. 

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10 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

He is trying to emphasize a point that the government has a repeated habit of over speccing and over spending, which can lead to under delivery and delay. In this instance it would appear that the government are building a semi permanent structure in the check in hall. This does not appear to be the best option to me and others. Given we are all being affected by this pandemic and subsequently the governments actions in response, I for one would like to know the rationale behind this particlar course of action.

And let's be honest they do have form for stupid custom made carpets and curtains that serve no purpose over plain cheap ones.

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1 minute ago, Gladys said:

If it helps, there were Swales vans there last evening. 

Bargain!

I noticed they had refloored Salisbury cathedral as well.  Obviously doesn't matter if it costs a few grand and hold things up for a few days as long as the floor is nice ffs.

Assume this all went out to tender months ago?

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