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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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23 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

It sounds absolutely heartless & callous but this is exactly the first reaction & thoughts many people have (though they’ll deny it to appear so wonderful).

Who was it, how old were they, were they ill already, had they been vaccinated?

It’s what rational humans do - they question things.

No they don't. There have been almost 130 million recorded cases of Covid 19 worldwide since the start of the pandemic,  almost 3 million recorded deaths from/with it,  although in both cases the actual figures are probably much higher. 

Huge amounts of statistics about these people,  their demographics,  general health, sex, ethnic background,  occupation,  outcomes,  which strain they suffered with etc. etc. are available from many different trusted sources.

If all you want to do is put our current predicament into perspective you will be spoilt for choice in doing so. Rarely has a subject been so extensively researched and discussed in such a short space of time by so many preeminent experts of various types in their field. Never has it been done in a world where such information is so readily published and made available to all for scrutiny and use. 

Basing any kind of statistical analysis on the personal details of a sample of two people who have died today in Nobles is an absolute nonsense,  if you're looking to them for your perspective then you're an idiot. 

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58 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

It sounds absolutely heartless & callous but this is exactly the first reaction & thoughts many people have (though they’ll deny it to appear so wonderful).

Who was it, how old were they, were they ill already, had they been vaccinated?

It’s what rational humans do - they question things.

You are wrong. It doesn't sound, it is heartless and callous but don't let that stop you.

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1 hour ago, Barlow said:

Pray tell us, what would it take for it not to matter to you that a person has died 'with' Covid.

Please provide a spectrum, a chart, a sliding scale or something, where you can show "this shit is the real deal" and "this shit is irrelevant".

I see where you are coming from, but I think after your proclamations you need to give a bit more detail. It would help to make you come over as a less callous twat.

For the record I’m neither callous, nor a twat.

But thanks anyway, another number marked.

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To be honest, I don't think we need to know anything more than if the death is from or with Covid.  The gender, age, BMI or other health reasons are irrelevant.  It isn’t callous or nosey, the death has already been announced as being connected to covid,  but a clarification.  Nor can it be an identifier.

That doesn't lessen our condolences (which I send to the relatives and friends of the deceased, of course) but it does help to understand the context. That is something that a lot of us have been asking for months now. 

We are being asked to make tremendous sacrifices and it is not an unreasonable bit of information to expect. 

The other information about age, health, vaccination can form part of a statistical analysis. 

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1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

It sounds absolutely heartless & callous but this is exactly the first reaction & thoughts many people have (though they’ll deny it to appear so wonderful).

Who was it, how old were they, were they ill already, had they been vaccinated?

It’s what rational humans do - they question things.

 

1 hour ago, Annoymouse said:

It’s more about being respectful, we do live on a small island and when it’s a high profile death like a retired Police Officer there is a huge song and dance about it, but when it’s someone relatively unknown they get treated as nothing more than a number, that really annoys me, a life is still a life and should be treated with equal respect.

I think it's more that we do live on a small island and that we are more likely to know who it is that we tend to be concerned, and for a variety of reasons. There's nothing heartless or callous about that?  

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Actually, there is an argument to say that hospitalisations and deaths with covid should not be reported at all, unless covid becomes the reason for the hospitalisation, or continued hospitalisation, or death. 

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2 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

Yes ... today & from the 1st death recorded.

Every death (life) is important but this whole thing has been about perspective which the public have never EVER been given.

Daily statistics about cases, deaths, hospital capacity, etc.

 

I'd say the public have been given perspective

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4 minutes ago, Gladys said:

To be honest, I don't think we need to know anything more than if the death is from or with Covid.  The gender, age, BMI or other health reasons are irrelevant.  It isn’t callous or nosey, the death has already been announced as being connected to covid,  but a clarification.  Nor can it be an identifier.

That doesn't lessen our condolences (which I send to the relatives and friends of the deceased, of course) but it does help to understand the context. That is something that a lot of us have been asking for months now. 

We are being asked to make tremendous sacrifices and it is not an unreasonable bit of information to expect. 

The other information about age, health, vaccination can form part of a statistical analysis. 

The problem is that I am not sure that it is as simple as saying someone either died from or with Covid. If someone is in hospital with another condition that they may or may not die from, and then they get Covid on top of that and pass away, who is to say whether they would have died anyway?

There will be a few cases such as asymptomatic Covid sufferers who die from something completely unrelated (for example a road accident), and the Covid is diagnosed incidentally when they are admitted, but they will be a tiny minority.

For most people who die from Covid, they probably wouldn't have died if they didn't have underlying health conditions, but equally, they probably would not have died of the underlying conditions had they not caught Covid.

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3 minutes ago, Newbie said:

For most people who die from Covid, they probably wouldn't have died if they didn't have underlying health conditions, but equally, they probably would not have died of the underlying conditions had they not caught Covid.

THIS! 

It never ceases to amaze me how many have the mindset of "oh they were probably gonna die anyway. So what." 

 See also: "Shouldn't have been such a fat bastard. Serves 'em right." 

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1 hour ago, Chris C said:

No they don't. There have been almost 130 million recorded cases of Covid 19 worldwide since the start of the pandemic,  almost 3 million recorded deaths from/with it,  although in both cases the actual figures are probably much higher. 

Huge amounts of statistics about these people,  their demographics,  general health, sex, ethnic background,  occupation,  outcomes,  which strain they suffered with etc. etc. are available from many different trusted sources.

If all you want to do is put our current predicament into perspective you will be spoilt for choice in doing so. Rarely has a subject been so extensively researched and discussed in such a short space of time by so many preeminent experts of various types in their field. Never has it been done in a world where such information is so readily published and made available to all for scrutiny and use. 

Basing any kind of statistical analysis on the personal details of a sample of two people who have died today in Nobles is an absolute nonsense,  if you're looking to them for your perspective then you're an idiot. 

Well said

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5 minutes ago, Zarley said:

THIS! 

It never ceases to amaze me how many have the mindset of "oh they were probably gonna die anyway. So what." 

 See also: "Shouldn't have been such a fat bastard. Serves 'em right." 

That is not my mindset at all, but I want to understand what the risk to me and my family is.  That has been my concern from when the implications of how covid deaths were being recorded and publicised was explained.  Of course every death matters and is a tragedy, no matter the age or health, but what do the deaths mean to the risks to me and my family? 

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2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That is not my mindset at all, but I want to understand what the risk to me and my family is.  That has been my concern from when the implications of how covid deaths were being recorded and publicised was explained.  Of course every death matters and is a tragedy, no matter the age or health, but what do the deaths mean to the risks to me and my family? 

I never though you were of that mindset. There are some here though... well, the shoe would fit. 

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8 minutes ago, Gladys said:

That is not my mindset at all, but I want to understand what the risk to me and my family is.  That has been my concern from when the implications of how covid deaths were being recorded and publicised was explained.  Of course every death matters and is a tragedy, no matter the age or health, but what do the deaths mean to the risks to me and my family? 

They mean nothing to the risks to you and your family. The poor people who died today may be classic Covid victims,  old, unvaccinated  with underlying health conditions,  they may have been young, fit and struck by lighting on the way home from their test. 

The risks to you and your family are well documented and exactly the same as they were yesterday,  it is that simple. 

The only thing that's changed is that two families are without a loved one which is extremely sad. Count yourself lucky it's not your family,  look after your family at least as well as you did yesterday and crack on.

It's all you can do.

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7 minutes ago, Chris C said:

They mean nothing to the risks to you and your family. The poor people who died today may be classic Covid victims,  old, unvaccinated  with underlying health conditions,  they may have been young, fit and struck by lighting on the way home from their test. 

The risks to you and your family are well documented and exactly the same as they were yesterday,  it is that simple. 

The only thing that's changed is that two families are without a loved one which is extremely sad. Count yourself lucky it's not your family,  look after your family at least as well as you did yesterday and crack on.

It's all you can do.

In that case, don't publicise them at all. 

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It irks me that so many people (to be clear, I'm not singling out any one person) like to believe that most people recover from covid like it was nothing more than a cold. Many don't and I'm not talking about deaths, I'm talking about long term problems. There's a lot of information available concerning long covid but it doesn't get talked about much at all. 

Aside from the suffering of individuals, long covid is important because it represents on-going pressure on health services as well as loss of earnings and subsequent reliance on the public purse.

The more covid is allowed to run through communities, including people under 50 and children, the more who are going to end up with long covid. We really do need to be careful or we could all end up regretting our impatience. 

Here are some excerpts from long covid articles, with links following for those inclined to read on.

 

Quote

The study found virus levels in the brain were about 1,000 times higher than in other parts of the body.

Kumar said the findings could help explain why some COVID-19 patients seem to be on the road to recovery, with improved lung function, only to rapidly relapse and die. His research and other studies suggest the severity of illness and the types of symptoms that different people experience could depend not only on how much virus a person was exposed to, but how it entered their body.

The nasal passages, he said, provide a more direct path to the brain than the mouth. And while the lungs of mice and humans are designed to fend off infections, the brain is ill equipped to do so, Kumar said. Once viral infections reach the brain, they trigger an inflammatory response that can persist indefinitely, causing ongoing damage.

“The brain is one of the regions where virus likes to hide,” he said, because it cannot mount the kind of immune response that can clear viruses from other parts of the body.

“That’s why we’re seeing severe disease and all these multiple symptoms like heart disease, stroke and all these long-haulers with loss of smell, loss of taste,” Kumar said. “All of this has to do with the brain rather than with the lungs.”

Kumar said that COVID-19 survivors whose infections reached their brain are also at increased risk of future health problems, including auto-immune diseases, Parkinson’s, multiple sclerosis and general cognitive decline.

“It’s scary,” Kumar said. “A lot of people think they got COVID and they recovered and now they’re out of the woods. Now I feel like that’s never going to be true. You may never be out of the woods.”

https://news.gsu.edu/2021/01/19/study-finds-covid-19-attack-on-brain-not-lungs-triggers-severe-disease-in-mice/  

 

Quote

The bottom line

New research has found that 76 percent of people who had been hospitalized for COVID-19 experienced at least one lingering symptom 6 months after recovering.

Long-term symptoms affect people of all ages and have occurred in people with mild, moderate, and severe COVID-19.

It’s unclear what’s behind long-haul COVID-19, but doctors suspect the risk factors include genetics, inflammation, and abnormal immune responses.

  https://www.healthline.com/health-news/over-75-percent-of-people-hospitalized-with-covid-19-have-symptoms-months-later  (good article with links throughout, including to the study) 

 

Quote

Many ‘Long Covid’ Patients Had No Symptoms From Their Initial Infection

An analysis of electronic medical records in California found that 32 percent started with asymptomatic infections but reported troubling aftereffects weeks and months later.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/health/long-covid-asymptomatic.html (if anyone wants to read the whole article but can't because of the paywall, let me know and I'll c&p it in its entirety)

 

Long Covid: Who is more likely to get it? (BBC article)

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