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IOM Covid removing restrictions


Filippo

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3 hours ago, John Wright said:

That will depend on the questions asked on the exemption form application. Last time. I think Guernsey arrivals had to declare they hadn’t been off Guernsey in the 14 days  prior to arrival here. Expect the same, but with 21 substituted for 14.

I was thinking IOM residents going to Guernsey, at same time Guernsey are allowing UK arrivals as are Jersey without isolating if from green zone . So IOM residents will likely be in bars at same time & then returning to IOM with no isolation.

Therefore if we don’t have same borders restrictions as Guernsey then we can mix freely with UK residents & presumably just meet families there if we continue with draconian restrictions whilst everyone else has opened up

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9 minutes ago, Banker said:

I was thinking IOM residents going to Guernsey, at same time Guernsey are allowing UK arrivals as are Jersey without isolating if from green zone . So IOM residents will likely be in bars at same time & then returning to IOM with no isolation.

Therefore if we don’t have same borders restrictions as Guernsey then we can mix freely with UK residents & presumably just meet families there if we continue with draconian restrictions whilst everyone else has opened up

I think you, and @Nom de plume need to look at, and contrast, the experiences of Israel and Chile.

Chile has had robust and speedy vaccination delivery, but infection rates are increasing again, mainly because they’re relying solely on vaccination and no other restrictive measures, especially travel.

Israel, with the highest vaccination levels still has strict controls, requires proof of vaccination or antibodies and has green travel corridors. It’s rate continues to fall.

What happens in the UK once restrictions are lifted and social life resumes will be the key for us. There are areas of the midlands and west, south and East Yorkshire that still have prevalence rates 4 times ( and more )  the UK average. The UK average is still 4 to 5 times ours. I suspect we will wait and see how the CI experience pans out. And that should get us to two doses for everyone 16 and over.

I can’t see how you can open up the Island to arrivals from certain parts only of the UK. It’s not practical. So that means the choice is unrestricted travel, or wait and see, or some sort of vaccine or antibody passporting or modified isolation and repeat testing.

And for modified isolation, repeat testing you need much more effective track and trace than we have. That, along with passporting is mitigation.

And we can’t, yet, rely on the UK figures continuing to reduce as the come out of lock down and reduce their border restrictions. It’s a conundrum.

Sure we will get to 3A by end May going into June. But I suspect there it will stay until end summer. Baby steps remember.

Ive got very mixed feelings about this. I really do. But I can’t see any big moves on the border before 23 September.

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On 4/10/2021 at 9:42 AM, Gladys said:

There isn't anything that is risk free when it comes to managing covid.  It only becomes "risk free" when you ignore some of the risks, like the economy, non-covid health, mental wellbeing, etc. 

PM has a piece about how a woman returning to the island was apparently misled by her direction notice, 111 and the security staff on her return.  All pretty appalling and for what end?  All she wanted to do was self-isolate with her husband who had not left the island but who would also self-isolate. 

You can kind of tolerate individual injustices or miscommunications if there is a significant risk, but there wasn't either from them or from the wider covid presence.  

What happened to the couple whose husband had to live in a caravan or a tent because his wife had returned from having treatment in the UK?

Update 

where is the logic in this?

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1 minute ago, John Wright said:

The problem of the IOM where you can, if you make most noise

The noise didn't help them, what helped them was both taking a round trip last night so they both entered and had to go into isolation.  Bonkers.

Oh, and lost recordings of their 111 conversation. 

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16 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I think you, and @Nom de plume need to look at, and contrast, the experiences of Israel and Chile.

Chile has had robust and speedy vaccination delivery, but infection rates are increasing again, mainly because they’re relying solely on vaccination and no other restrictive measures, especially travel.

Israel, with the highest vaccination levels still has strict controls, requires proof of vaccination or antibodies and has green travel corridors. It’s rate continues to fall.

What happens in the UK once restrictions are lifted and social life resumes will be the key for us. There are areas of the midlands and west, south and East Yorkshire that still have prevalence rates 4 times ( and more )  the UK average. The UK average is still 4 to 5 times ours. I suspect we will wait and see how the CI experience pans out. And that should get us to two doses for everyone 16 and over.

I can’t see how you can open up the Island to arrivals from certain parts only of the UK. It’s not practical. So that means the choice is unrestricted travel, or wait and see, or some sort of vaccine or antibody passporting or modified isolation and repeat testing.

And for modified isolation, repeat testing you need much more effective track and trace than we have. That, along with passporting is mitigation.

And we can’t, yet, rely on the UK figures continuing to reduce as the come out of lock down and reduce their border restrictions. It’s a conundrum.

Sure we will get to 3A by end May going into June. But I suspect there it will stay until end summer. Baby steps remember.

Ive got very mixed feelings about this. I really do. But I can’t see any big moves on the border before 23 September.

Well Guernsey & Jersey are managing to open upto UK with different testing/isolating processes depending on region arriving from , so why is it so difficult for IOM?

Also Howie has already said 3a from end of this month so think you maybe disappointed if you expect end May. As he said they are considering a paper on what testing/isolating will be required at Thursday Comin so maybe an announcement this week.

I expect the revised border policy to be released next Tynwald to more mirror Channel Islands , it would be absolutely ridiculous to wait until all over 16s are fully vaccinated .

Edited by Banker
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20 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I think you, and @Nom de plume need to look at, and contrast, the experiences of Israel and Chile.

Chile has had robust and speedy vaccination delivery, but infection rates are increasing again, mainly because they’re relying solely on vaccination and no other restrictive measures, especially travel.

Israel, with the highest vaccination levels still has strict controls, requires proof of vaccination or antibodies and has green travel corridors. It’s rate continues to fall.

What happens in the UK once restrictions are lifted and social life resumes will be the key for us. There are areas of the midlands and west, south and East Yorkshire that still have prevalence rates 4 times ( and more )  the UK average. The UK average is still 4 to 5 times ours. I suspect we will wait and see how the CI experience pans out. And that should get us to two doses for everyone 16 and over.

I can’t see how you can open up the Island to arrivals from certain parts only of the UK. It’s not practical. So that means the choice is unrestricted travel, or wait and see, or some sort of vaccine or antibody passporting or modified isolation and repeat testing.

And for modified isolation, repeat testing you need much more effective track and trace than we have. That, along with passporting is mitigation.

And we can’t, yet, rely on the UK figures continuing to reduce as the come out of lock down and reduce their border restrictions. It’s a conundrum.

Sure we will get to 3A by end May going into June. But I suspect there it will stay until end summer. Baby steps remember.

Ive got very mixed feelings about this. I really do. But I can’t see any big moves on the border before 23 September.

So, in essence what you are saying, is despite the overwhelming evidence that the vaccine rollout coupled with restrictions has worked & the fact that the U.K. and CI are both soon easing travel restrictions, we are to wait ‘just in case’.

Is HQ & Co telling us our health service is inferior to the CI, are they mad men for exposing themselves to more risk?

What is the criteria for ever opening up? 15 months into this shit show & the Manx Government will still not give us any clarity.

Ooooo, let’s wait and see what happens in X, Y & Z .... just doesn’t cut it. It’s fucking pathetic frankly.

PS - the kids were the super spreaders in the U.K., not the adults & they’ve been happily mixing for 4 weeks now!!!! Are there any more excuses they want to dream up like ......?

 

Edited by Nom de plume
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4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

 What happens in the UK once restrictions are lifted and social life resumes will be the key for us. There are areas of the midlands and west, south and East Yorkshire that still have prevalence rates 4 times ( and more )  the UK average. The UK average is still 4 to 5 times ours. I suspect we will wait and see how the CI experience pans out. And that should get us to two doses for everyone 16 and over.

I can’t see how you can open up the Island to arrivals from certain parts only of the UK. It’s not practical. So that means the choice is unrestricted travel, or wait and see, or some sort of vaccine or antibody passporting or modified isolation and repeat testing.

And for modified isolation, repeat testing you need much more effective track and trace than we have. That, along with passporting is mitigation.

And we can’t, yet, rely on the UK figures continuing to reduce as the come out of lock down and reduce their border restrictions. It’s a conundrum.

The high infection rates seem to be in mostly deprived areas.

Keeping tabs on folks entering the UK is a shambles.

Track, trace and isolate, which should have replaced lockdowns, is also a shambles. Despite the £billions thrown at it.

I guess where we are in Manchester is pretty typical in that lots of folks are obeying the rules but equally lots are not.

The next few weeks are key. Tomorrow non-vital shops, indoor sports and pub gardens and so on all open. A week monday the schools go back. There is also the "Moonshot" nonsense. There was a whole page spread in the papers yesterday about getting your free tests. Unfortunately there was no mention of actually how you go about obtaining same.

So the next few weeks should tell all. I guess we'll find out....

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8 minutes ago, Banker said:

Also Howie has already said 3a from end of this month so think you maybe disappointed if you expect end May. As he said they are considering a paper on what testing/isolating will be required at Thursday Comin so maybe an announcement this week.

Except, as usual, you overstate. That’s not what he said at all.

In answer to the journo question  Is there a public appetite for a 3A border change at the end of the month as it will increase risk when we’ve just come out of lockdown?

Howie replied Infection rate coming down in the UK. Discussing next week about protecting residents but we should do our best to ensure family and loved ones can visit us.

No mention of any date, least of all end April. I’m not sure we will follow CI. That seems not to be as data driven as it should be. 

The UK is solely date driven.

Im keen on the restrictions being removed as soon as practical. The are different ideas of what is pragmatically practical. I think that what I’m predicting is a realistic forecast of what will happen, and why. 

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14 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

So, in essence what you are saying, is despite the overwhelming evidence that the vaccine rollout coupled with restrictions has worked & the fact that the U.K. and CI are both soon easing travel restrictions, we are to wait ‘just in case’.

Is HQ & Co telling us our health service is inferior to the CI, are they mad men for exposing themselves to more risk?

What is the criteria for ever opening up? 15 months into this shit show & the Manx Government will still not give us any clarity.

Ooooo, let’s wait and see what happens in X, Y & Z .... just doesn’t cut it. It’s fucking pathetic frankly.

PS - the kids were the super spreaders in the U.K., not the adults & they’ve been happily mixing for 4 weeks now!!!! Are there any more excuses they want to dream up like ......?

 

The clue is in your post. Vaccine coupled with restrictions. The issue is what restrictions.

The IOM won’t move until it’s seen what happens in UK. 

As for schools the next couple of weeks will tell. UK kids haven’t been happily mixing for 4 weeks. Not yet, and not continuously.

You and Banker need to stop bleating and attacking. I’ve not expressed my personal preference. I’m saying what I expect our lot to do, and why. You don’t actually ever address that.

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4 hours ago, Nomadic Raptor said:

This extra week is just pointless...one of the lines they have given is to allow teachers to prepare...what have they been doing for the last six weeks? And don’t say teaching because that is simply not true....my boys have video calls every other day at a time that suits the teacher otherwise it gets in the way of their day and no teaching takes place in these calls......last week of term the home schooling was read a chapter a day of a book.......

 

schools have already said in reality they can’t social distance so what are they preparing for....

I’m more of the opinion that the gradual opening of schools is to observe and assess if there is any effect in letting a reduced number of staff and children mix in close quarters, before opening to all pupils and staff. If there were to be a school-based outbreak, it would be more manageable to contact trace etc.

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39 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I think you, and @Nom de plume need to look at, and contrast, the experiences of Israel and Chile.

Chile has had robust and speedy vaccination delivery, but infection rates are increasing again, mainly because they’re relying solely on vaccination and no other restrictive measures, especially travel.

Israel, with the highest vaccination levels still has strict controls, requires proof of vaccination or antibodies and has green travel corridors. It’s rate continues to fall.

What happens in the UK once restrictions are lifted and social life resumes will be the key for us. There are areas of the midlands and west, south and East Yorkshire that still have prevalence rates 4 times ( and more )  the UK average. The UK average is still 4 to 5 times ours. I suspect we will wait and see how the CI experience pans out. And that should get us to two doses for everyone 16 and over.

I can’t see how you can open up the Island to arrivals from certain parts only of the UK. It’s not practical. So that means the choice is unrestricted travel, or wait and see, or some sort of vaccine or antibody passporting or modified isolation and repeat testing.

And for modified isolation, repeat testing you need much more effective track and trace than we have. That, along with passporting is mitigation.

And we can’t, yet, rely on the UK figures continuing to reduce as the come out of lock down and reduce their border restrictions. It’s a conundrum.

Sure we will get to 3A by end May going into June. But I suspect there it will stay until end summer. Baby steps remember.

Ive got very mixed feelings about this. I really do. But I can’t see any big moves on the border before 23 September.

We should have a set date of the end of June.  No change til then.   Then  completely opened unfettered.  Time to move on and by then anyone that needs vaccination are done twice.

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4 minutes ago, gymbabe said:

I’m more of the opinion that the gradual opening of schools is to observe and assess if there is any effect in letting a reduced number of staff and children mix in close quarters, before opening to all pupils and staff. If there were to be a school-based outbreak, it would be more manageable to contact trace etc.

Yes but that won't be sussed out in a week.  They should all be back tomorrow.  Scandalous really.

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11 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The clue is in your post. Vaccine coupled with restrictions. The issue is what restrictions.

The IOM won’t move until it’s seen what happens in UK. 

As for schools the next couple of weeks will tell. UK kids haven’t been happily mixing for 4 weeks. Not yet, and not continuously.

You and Banker need to stop bleating and attacking. I’ve not expressed my personal preference. I’m saying what I expect our lot to do, and why. You don’t actually ever address that.

Oh, I’ll address it happily.

The question is what do I expect ‘our lot’ to do?

They'll do what they also do. Hide, fudge, circumnavigate, dither, delay & not actually address anything or issue any clarity on where we are going.

They’ll continue to mask their data channels & provenance of medical advice. 

They’ll have the Manx public for the mugs they are.

Good enough answer?

Edited by Nom de plume
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