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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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7 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Have you got any figures to support that?

My understanding is that infection acquired immunity less effective than vaccination-acquired immunity. This is why it's recommended even when you've had the virus.

The Cleveland Study is an interesting one. It appears that natural immunity and vaccine-derived immunity offer a similar level of protection.

Do You Need a Vaccine After Having COVID-19? Experts Aren’t Sure (healthline.com)

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18 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

The time for debate/conversation is long gone you're either a mental anti vaxxer who is going to go round killing the elderly or a lockdown fanatic who just wants everyone to sit round in a bubble till you die. There is no middle ground.

I am at neither end of the spectrum -

I don't deny Covid is an infectious disease with the potential to kill.  But I also acknowledge that the majority who contract it will recover, although some may have lasting effects.

I support, absolutely, everyone who can getting jabbed.  It is the right thing to do:

a. So we can return to as near normality as possible and limit the physical health, mental health and socio-economic impact of lockdowns.

b. To protect those who through medical issues cannot have the vax. 

I am happy for people to take what other mitigating measures they are happy with or as is dictated to them by their medical situation.  But not for those people to require others to do more than vax, wear masks and social distance in appropriate situations.  

Most people probably have the same view rather than the polarised views you outline. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Danoo said:

The Cleveland Study is an interesting one. It appears that natural immunity and vaccine-derived immunity offer a similar level of protection.

Do You Need a Vaccine After Having COVID-19? Experts Aren’t Sure (healthline.com)

It's interesting, but if you read the intro, it actually lists some of the shortcomings. It's also pre-print, it hasn't been peer reviewed yet. They've also been working in a healthcare setting, which may change their risk profile.

The study also highlights the issue against new variants, which weren't necessarily prominent there when the study was done. PHE are currently talking about Delta having a significantly higher rate of reinfection.

I'm not knocking the study, but I expect we'll see more data around the topic as time goes on.

Edited by AcousticallyChallenged
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8 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

It's interesting, but if you read the intro, it actually lists some of the shortcomings. It's also pre-print, it hasn't been peer reviewed yet. They've also been working in a healthcare setting, which may change their risk profile.

The study also highlights the issue against new variants, which weren't necessarily prominent there when the study was done. PHE are currently talking about Delta having a significantly higher rate of reinfection.

I'm not knocking the study, but I expect we'll see more data around the topic as time goes on.

Absolutely. We are still learning every day as we go at the moment.

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1 hour ago, Gladys said:

From an infection control viewpoint why should you both be treated the same because you are not? 

but some peoples natural immunity is better at dealing with the virus than some people who have been vaccinated from a symptoms point of view and maybe even from a contagious point of view,  in which case does that make the unvaccinated person a safer person to society regarding covid.?  and , would anybody want to know if it did. ??

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20 minutes ago, Gladys said:

But not for those people to require others to do more than vax, wear masks and social distance in appropriate situations.  

 

I'm of a similar opinion to you. 

I don't want further lockdowns.

I don't want to hide away in a bunker either, but to a certain extent I must simply because so few people are wearing masks or socially distancing in shops or other indoor public places. 

I'm happy to go out and about outdoors, even without a mask, but I'm quite wary in shops. Tomorrow morning I have to catch a bus into (dirty stinking) Douglas and I'm not looking forward to it at all. I'll be wearing a mask and hopefully sitting near an open window. 

I think the main thing that worries me about people refusing to get jabbed is the likelihood of the emergence of a vaxx-resistant strain being created. The more un-vaxxed there are amongst us, the better chance of this happening. Or so I've been led to understand. 

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1 hour ago, thommo2010 said:

There is no middle ground.

The middle ground is not to discuss it. Genuinely most people I know socially or at work don’t care anymore and COVID-19 isn’t even a topic that’s discussed other than where there’s a practical need to discuss it (ie, how do we deal with face-to-face meetings with customers etc). But it’s still very Brexity with all the polarized noise is on social media. But to be honest to me it sounds like about the same 20 people on different social media platforms making a hell a lot of noise about exactly the same stuff. 

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24 minutes ago, WTF said:

but some peoples natural immunity is better at dealing with the virus than some people who have been vaccinated from a symptoms point of view and maybe even from a contagious point of view,  in which case does that make the unvaccinated person a safer person to society regarding covid.?  and , would anybody want to know if it did. ??

How do you know who is who?

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1 minute ago, Zarley said:

I think the main thing that worries me about people refusing to get jabbed is the likelihood of the emergence of a vaxx-resistant strain being created. The more un-vaxxed there are amongst us, the better chance of this happening. Or so I've been led to understand. 

The real problem isn't the anti-vaxxers who are actually a tiny minority, or even those who can't for genuine medical reasons or who might not find the vaccine as effective.  It's those who haven't been fully vaccinated yet (effectively 18-40) who mostly have the first jab but not the second.  And 12-17 inc aren't being vaccinated at all yet, even though they are in a lot of countries.  These are of course the groups where we have seen the highest numbers of Covid cases, not just in  the most recent outbreak, but in the February/March one before vaccination had time to have an effect.

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4 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

... the same 20 people on different social media platforms making a hell a lot of noise about exactly the same stuff. 

20 different 'characters', but actually the same person, probably 😁 It makes me laugh and fills me with wonder that someone will go to the trouble of maintaining all the personas; for what reason? Easily recognisable though...🤭

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5 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

I forgot you could become fat by being near a fat person for a few minutes. 

...nor are you going to die by being near someone with CV for a few minutes.

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6 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

So who’s buying up all the bog roll then? 

I'm wondering if it isn't people worrying about the brexit-induced bare shelves we're seeing in England that's causing panic buying here, more so than covid concerns. After all it doesn't seem like we're going to have another lockdown any time soon. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Utah 01 said:

...nor are you going to die by being near someone with CV for a few minutes.

Some of us simply cannot be so sure - and through no fault of our own before you try to imply I need to lose weight. 

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7 minutes ago, Utah 01 said:

...nor are you going to die by being near someone with CV for a few minutes.

You're not going to die from sitting next to a fat person. I'm not sure what you're going for here.

You do have relatively high odds of catching COVID though though. Contact tracing from areas of low prevalence is suggesting just incidental contact is proving enough to spread some of the newer variants.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-24/covid-delta-kappa-variant-spread-in-fleeting-moment-nsw-vic/100238680

Edited by AcousticallyChallenged
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