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IOM Covid removing restrictions


Filippo

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This is an example of what I'm up against when explaining my view

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Politely suggest you research official science & data. The view that widespread infection is good is based on misinformation & fringe science. Consensus is herd immunity with Delta is impossible & long term health damage even for mild cases in vaxed is heavily documented.

How are you supposed to get through to these people? 

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With respect TP, you can’t. 

If you have something of value to say then choose to say it to an open door. I and others get a huge amount from your posts on here. Personally I’ve learned a lot from your posts and I’m open to learning more.

Talking to a closed door is a waste of your time and energy.

Save your energy for those who want to learn. 

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1 minute ago, Roxanne said:

With respect TP, you can’t. 

If you have something of value to say then choose to say it to an open door. I and others get a huge amount from your posts on here. Personally I’ve learned a lot from your posts and I’m open to learning more.

Talking to a closed door is a waste of your time and energy.

Save your energy for those who want to learn. 

I learn every day. 

It's those who cling to April 2020 and refuse to see anything positive who I'm having a hard time with, and continue to be concerned that they are going to force their way on my son, and all children. There is a concerted push by those who feel that way to get kids masked up next term. It's insane, and complete denial of realty. 

I'd genuinely like to talk my theories through with someone who understands things, but as soon as you start talking about infecting kids the shutters go down and that's it.

I think the doomers hate me, I'm certainly blocked or muted by a few of them now, and I'm not even trying to be shitty to them. I'd just like them to see things a bit clearer, got shut down months ago for talking about an endemic situation, but some of those who shut me down then now grudgingly agree, but they'll never admit it.

Apparently, a view of vaccinate adults and open up is 'psychotic'.

For balance I have been taking attacks from antivaxxers and hoaxers too.

 

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1 hour ago, Roxanne said:

But Danoo, aren’t you guilty of calling anyone who disagrees with you a ‘doommonger?  Where does that fit in your narrative of above? 

Not at all. I do think a lot of people on this island verge on the overly negative and will call them out on it, if necessary, though. I prefer my glass half full. 

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1 minute ago, offshoremanxman said:

I’d say that’s a positive to be honest as it saves you blocking them. It’s awful to follow and one or two of the main Twitter doomers clearly post on here as well as it’s often the same stuff on rinse and repeat. I’m surprised by one or two of them having had time for some of their views in normal times - but it’s got like a psychosis or other sort of mental illness for a few. There is no way out for them so they want covid to last forever. 

There's one guy I actually quite like, interesting fellow who definitely knows more about this stuff than me, and who was sort of willing to engage a bit. I was disappointed when he had enough of me tbh. It is possible, although very very unlikely, that I'm wrong, and I'm totally willing to hear why.

Some of the others though...

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2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Not necessarily. What if you were sleeping with someone infected or sharing a house will other infected persons? The load can vary enormously. That's why so many health workers were ill in the first wave.

Also the vaccine is not even a 'virus', whatever a 'virus' is. It's a harmless thing that looks like real actual virus to our immune systems. Not aware that it's an enormous dose, but because it can't to propagate like the real thing there needs to be just sufficient to trigger an immune response.

So many people have shared houses and beds with infected people without catching it.  Makes a mockery of the whole mask thing IMO.

Also agree that letting it rip through kids is good thing and not a negative.

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1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

I'm getting a bit dispirited by it all really, despite all the good news.

But then you argued with me when I said it is burning itself out? It is! It had been from day one. You said it is all down to vaccination (but not in such a positive way). Well, it kind of is. 

We are all going to get this virus, whether we like it or not. Please just make sure you are vaccinated first! 

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People may recall that some time back I shared an article by Andrew Lilico arguing the epidemic was over. He's probably a bit of a prick in real life but he's been remarkably accurate in his predictions. Anyway, he's written another one, crowing a bit about his genius but also calling out some straight up nonsense people have recently been plugging. Its from the Telegraph so I've pasted it for you ( remember, to read telegraph articles should you wish to, simply turn off javascript) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/10/29/lockdown-fanatics-should-ashamed/

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Lockdown fanatics should be ashamed of themselves

Those who called for Plan B just days ago have already seen their predictions proven wrong – yet again

At the start of this week, certain people, such as the Labour Party and the “Independent Sage” group of scientists, were calling for coronavirus restrictions to be brought back. They warned that, without them, the NHS would collapse this autumn and winter. They were wrong. As cases have since trended downwards, some of them have gone strangely silent.

These prognosticators of doom have been wrong time after time after time. And not just a little bit wrong – epically wrong, all while morally condemning their more accurate opponents. As cases rose in early July, in the run-up to England’s full reopening on July 19, restrictions advocates said that it was inevitable we would reach 100,000 cases per day. Keir Starmer released a video statement in which he declared that “Boris Johnson’s recklessness means we’re going to have an NHS summer crisis. The Johnson Variant is already out of control.” A set of academics wrote a letter to The Lancet condemning the reopening as a “dangerous and unethical experiment”.

What happened next was that cases crashed, immediately after July 19, in precisely the week my model said that would happen. In late August, after a small rise as behaviour adjusted to the absence of restrictions, cases started falling again. But restrictions advocates were unfazed by their failures of a few weeks before. Next they declared that if restrictions were not reimposed in the autumn, there would be 300,000 new cases per day, with 100,000 per day being inevitable and 200,000 likely.

Others of us, using the models that had successfully predicted the July peak and cases falling from the second half of August, said that wouldn’t happen. Instead, there would be a spike in cases among children when schools returned, but spillover into other age-groups would be limited, and neither seasonal factors, behaviour changing to be more like that pre-pandemic nor any more infectious variant could change that. Hospitalisations would peak at between 1,000 and 1,500 per day – well below even the most optimistic of the early September Sage scenarios.

What happened was that there was a spike in cases among children, cases in non-children barely changed, hospitalisations fell a bit before rising back towards 1,000 per day.

Yet despite being hideously wrong both in the summer and as regards September/October, restrictions advocates still expect us to believe their new prognostications of doom. We should not.

Just as their agitation for new restrictions reached its latest peak, cases in England started falling again, with week-on-week falls of over 20 per cent recorded in the past few days. Everyone makes mistakes when trying to predict real-world events, but scientists learn from their mistakes instead of doubling down on the same wrong predictions.

What’s going to happen (as the latest official Sage models now predict) is that cases and hospitalistions will be lower in winter than they are now. The government estimates are that nearly 80 per cent of children have now had Covid and about 6-7 per cent are newly infected per week. That means that the virus has all but run out of children to infect and cases among children will crash – according to the latest data they are falling at a rate of about 40 per cent per week. Children constituted half of recent cases. So chldren’s cases crashing means total cases will fall rapidly. Hospitalisations will fall, too, as boosters eliminate most of the residual serious disease risk for the elderly.

Maybe other things might threaten our health soon. A new flu epidemic is a possibility. Covid will become endemic, after a bumpy transition over the next year or so. Tens of thousands of people will catch it every day, for ever. All of us will get it many times. But the epidemic is over and it’s time for those whose predictions have been so wrong to lick their intellectual wounds and learn some badly needed lessons in humility.

 

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1 hour ago, Cambon said:

But then you argued with me when I said it is burning itself out? It is! It had been from day one.

From day one the virus has been mutating. The early variants, though still around, have been overtaken by dominant mutations. We were all vaxxed based on research on the early variants. Vaccine efficacy long-term is still to be properly evaluated and how much effect any waning of their collective potential will have against any new-variant outbreaks that will arise, well, we shall see. In many countries around the world, this virus and its mutations still burn fiercely...

It will be as TheTeapot explains. The coming cold months will be the testing-ground for the vaccines and any naturally-acquired immunity. Next spring will tell us a lot, hopefully. By that time, current research, ploughing-ahead relentlessly as it is, might even have had its 'eureka' moment and produced the magic pill/vaccine to end all our woes.

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Miss Glover is getting annoyed with those saying we need to live with COVID, from Twitter!

You have no idea how much self control I use to NOT respond to the "live with it" crowd on Facebook. 

I want the people who say we should "live with it" to do so to the families of the people who have died due to COVID and then watch them realise how insulting their words are.

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46 minutes ago, Banker said:

Miss Glover is getting annoyed with those saying we need to live with COVID, from Twitter!

You have no idea how much self control I use to NOT respond to the "live with it" crowd on Facebook. 

I want the people who say we should "live with it" to do so to the families of the people who have died due to COVID and then watch them realise how insulting their words are.

Of course she is. No-one knew who she was 18 months ago, she was just doing gene testing on cats but now she's a local superstar so she doesn't want to lose that status. The reality is we don't need her input anymore. She can go back to being a nobody again. 

In response to your final point. What about the people whose relatives died because their treatments were pulled because of the COVID over-reaction? Do they not warrant a mention or is it still the COVID-only show?

ETA: I see she blocks people who don't agree with her views on Twitter. Doesn't respond to debate. Calls them trolls. Always a sure sign someone is comfortable that their own opinion is correct and open to dialogue....

Edited by Danoo
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