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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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21 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Well that might be a start, although that's a consequence of for profit elderly care. Try convincing shareholders of private equity groups that their dividends might need to take a hit. It's a disgusting situation.

Absolutely agree.  Conspiracy nuts may think that improvements in medicine does little for the elderly but provide a lucrative source of income for the elderly care industry.  

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Can you guys start a separate thread titled "Jersey is ace - oh no it isn't" and leave this one to a discussion on IOM and the coronavirus?

...and I so wanted a long illustrious career at the DHSC   I run my own company so my involvement with the DHSC to set up and keep the COVID19 lab running wasn't exactly in the professional caree

I'll put a big disclaimer here that I'm not the person who decides who gets tested and when.  Saying that, I am a scientist who understands that if you test someone on the day they arrive and the

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'Protecting the vulnerable' is hard. And gets harder still when cases in the community are high. Take Sweden, favourite example of the no lockdown gang (often those people are from the right of the political spectrum, scream 'but Sweden', and completely fail to take into account that Sweden is a socialist country with a strong welfare state, which is fairly amusing to point out). They said they were going to do just that, and then it went badly wrong. And their care is much more in house than private, so I assume (I don't know) that their staff are much better paid, and definitely benefit from better sick pay conditions. It may be that it went wrong because it was so early in the pandemic and people will be better prepared now, but I don't think the UK will ever be be prepared for anything.

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24 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Conspiracy nuts may think that improvements in medicine does little for the elderly but provide a lucrative source of income for the elderly care industry.  

Although obviously, in reality, one of the main consequences of better healthcare has been that many people live much longer relatively healthy lives. The age at which people typically need constant care has been pushed out.

But Covid seems to challenge this. It's much more like Russian roulette - we just can't predict who is going to get really ill. Who would have guessed that the PM himself would have been so vulnerable? Whilst obviously a larger chap he had still seemed relatively active - riding his bike, hanging off a zipwire etc.

Elderly care should probably be much more expensive. i don't see how it can cost less than the best hotel. The Conservatives were castigated for suggesting that the value in people's homes should be used to fund that. Because people expect to inherit their parents' home.

In essence I think they were correct. The question then is how to fund it and some basic level for families who cannot afford to pay.

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9 minutes ago, pongo said:

But Covid seems to challenge this. It's much more like Russian roulette - we just can't predict who is going to get really ill. Who would have guessed that the PM himself would have been so vulnerable? Whilst obviously a larger chap he had still seemed relatively active - riding his bike, hanging off a zipwire etc.

More reality defying claims trying to support more senseless paranoia. Johnson is rumoured to have a serious drink problem, he’s overweight, and the stress of the job trying to manage the covid crisis probably had his immune system on the floor. He admitted himself he worked through it, largely ignored his diagnosis, and worked incredibly long hours against medical advice until it felled him. It’s entirely understandable in that context why he ended up where he did. 

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@teapot - another important aspect to note about Sweden is that in many areas of public policy, it is trained administrators and professionals rather than politicians who decide policy. That's a much more sensible system - putting experts in charge of the whole picture ... rather than leaving things I'm the hands of people who worry about whether what they do will be adequately populist or not.

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1 hour ago, wrighty said:

How about paying the caring professions properly so they don’t have to work double shifts in multiple establishments, and get proper sick pay so they’re not temped to go in if unwell? 

Angela Rayner demands real living wage for care workers

Labour deputy leader asks Boris Johnson to recognise workers’ sacrifices in pandemic

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/18/angela-rayner-demands-real-living-wage-for-care-workers

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4 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

More reality defying claims trying to support more senseless paranoia. Johnson is rumoured to have a serious drink problem, he’s overweight, and the stress of the job trying to manage the covid crisis probably had his immune system on the floor. He admitted himself he worked through it, largely ignored his diagnosis, and worked incredibly long hours against medical advice until it felled him. It’s entirely understandable in that context why he ended up where he did. 

Now THAT'S funny.

The invisible man working his fingers to the bone....

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Well worth a read:

Scientists tracking the virus have uncovered a major mutation, but it may not be as scary as it sounds

 

Scientists have had eyes on Sars-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, since the beginning of this pandemic.

They can see it is evolving, but it is happening at a glacial pace compared with two other viruses with pandemic potential: those that cause flu and Aids. That is good news for efforts to develop vaccines and treatments, but scientists remain wary that anything could still happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/18/mutant-virus-should-we-be-worried-sars-cov-2-changing-covid

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4 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Johnson is rumoured to have a serious drink problem, he’s overweight, and the stress of the job trying to manage the covid crisis probably had his immune system on the floor

Would you like to consider how you would draw up a list of who, like the PM, is at serious risk from Covid. I'm fairly sure you will end up with the greater majority of people.

You talk about 'stress' for example. But that's a relative thing - one person may thrive on stress whilst another is floored. Also there is no sensible measure.

Pre Covid I would have guessed that the PM had a pretty solid immune system. Not that we even know how that really might be a factor - some scientists have argued that it's a good immune response which kills people with Covid.

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4 minutes ago, pongo said:

 

- some scientists have argued that it's a good immune response which kills people with Covid.

It’ll be both. Most frail elderly covid victims succumb because their immune system is relatively weak and they have poor physiological reserves such that the slightest insult may be too much for them. The rare youngster that dies from covid is probably a victim of his own unchecked immune response. It’s why steroids are helpful in severe cases. 

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1 hour ago, wrighty said:

Following the Guardian is not so bad. I enjoy their crosswords. I skip over the rabid anti-Boris rants though.

Not so bad indeed!

Probably the last independent newspaper the UK has got The Guardian telling it like it is makes for uncomfortable reading for right whingers everywhere....

But it's essential if you like to keep yourself properly informed.

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2 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Not so bad indeed!

Probably the last independent newspaper the UK has got The Guardian telling it like it is makes for uncomfortable reading for right whingers everywhere....

But it's essential if you like to keep yourself properly informed.

I read the Guardian too, but man, it's very heavily slanted and you need a tub of salt sometimes.

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Who said Boris had a drink problem.   I think it is you Sultan that have some sort of problem your postings lately have become nothing more than a hate rant about everything and anything you are not the measured person you used to be.   You have changed and not for the better.

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One of the benefits of online newspapers is that if you have the time,  you can see  how different newspapers report the same  things differently, or don’t report things  at all, or  give different slants and opinions  depending on the prejudices  of their usual readers .Guardian /  Daily Mail  devotees clearly not only have  different news and views but live in different worlds

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15 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

You sound like you’ve literally lost it. Ranting and raving in a way that sounds demented. Are you still in the UK and regretting the decision to flee the IOM to rush to covid-central? Are they locking down your town this weekend while we’re all down the pub? Otherwise I’m not sure why you’d be so angry. Herd immunity is one of the few logical ways this will end or burn out. 

Actually, herd immunity is the only way out. 

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