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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Was talking to a friend in the UK the other day. Within 10 days of their kids school re-opening after 6 months his child was down to a class of 3 because some kid got the sniffles and all the parents bricked it and withdrew their kids from school. So it’s a class of 30 with 27 kids at home now self isolating as some kid who didn’t have coronavirus but had a runny nose was ill. It’s absolute madness. It is little short of mass hysteria in some circles. 

 

It reminds me when I was eight and lying in bed with a bad fever and very dry mouth; asking my mother for some drug or therapy. Mum says: "it's a virus, it has got to run its course".

Next day my dad: "fever is gone, time to get out". And he literally kicks me out of the house to play with the other kids in the yard.

That was the last time in my life I had a fever or was in bed with anything (late thirties now).

Now they vaccinate kids for the flu?

Here is the link:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/flushot.htm

It is madness. And it is imposed on people. In some US universities you can't study or teach if you don't get the flu shot. They would expel you with no refund of the fees paid. And here in the UK, Cardiff University has adopted that cranky policy.

We are going to have riots in Trafalgar Square soon. That is my hope. The nurses need to be put back in their place.

 

2088714064_Whoshouldandwhoshouldnotgetafluvaccine.thumb.jpg.755e487a90d3565b606ba49eb9250401.jpg

 

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Can you guys start a separate thread titled "Jersey is ace - oh no it isn't" and leave this one to a discussion on IOM and the coronavirus?

It's a safe place right now because of the Manx people, not the Manx politicians. None of us want to be "the person who brought it back" so we isolate and make sure we don't transmit the virus by bein

Ratio of admissions to deaths is not that different, testing is obviously out due to the massive capacity increase like just about everywhere in the world.    The current UK situation is impact

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17 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

Is this for real?

Crack on Neil Down, you absolute winner.

It is a serious question.

Forget Covid for the time being as an excuse, once they have their degrees, how many actually return to the Island?

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26 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

Forget Covid for the time being as an excuse, once they have their degrees, how many actually return to the Island?

50 %

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40 minutes ago, Debbie said:

Don't be under the silly illusion that the present Covid dictatorship is going to end with the current crisis. Mandatory stay-at-home orders and border closures will be a recurrence. Anyone with a runny nose is to be ostracised and banned. There has been a reassessment of the risk of living.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:11 AM, thesultanofsheight said:

Yep pander to the Facebook idiots, scaremongers, hysteria spreaders and move back to level 5. That’s what the petrified masses want. Or maybe even find a new level where any mention of someone thinking of going to the UK gets someone 6 weeks in prison. Only if your neighbour intercepts your thoughts though and shops you to the 111 line as still no more people employed to actually do any checks in the coronavirus team. That’s for sure.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:40 AM, TheTeapot said:

I'll be a bit annoyed if they go back to level 5, they've had quite enough time to put a proper working system in place. It was the right approach the first time round and gave the breathing space to plan. If they just revert to it what it shows is that they've done fuck all.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 1:42 PM, Beelzebub3 said:

They already done that back in March when they closed the borders to everyone manx or otherwise,  so they have already lost it. remember the Comis /Police escorts /Guards patroling the grounds/ Searching peoples baggage, Yes they lost it all right.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 10:53 PM, Gladys said:

I have read it.  I don't  believe CV is a hoax, I do believe that the way information is provided follows an agenda.  I also believe that the measures have the potential for great long  lasting harm. To be honest, I think the agenda is as simple as governments getting themselves on a hook that they cannot get themselves off without being accused of recklessness, or murder.  Even on MR, people were saying they would consider that our government would be guilty of murder if anyone else dies after relaxation of the CV measures. Not a great platform for your election chances.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 5:26 PM, Nom de plume said:

Jersey still to have a single hospital admission since opening 3rd July. 111,000 tests completed. Yes, there are compromises for what is in effect a very good system of allowing people into their Island. We are going to need to find a compromise soon. I‘m sure we can expect news on this tomorrow.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:43 AM, Nom de plume said:

I noted Guernsey have taken ownership of the latest testing hardware in preparation of their move to Level 5C (testing on entry). It would seem they are still giving serious consideration to moving up the levels despite the problems within the UK. They will adopt a traffic light system similar to Jersey in which arrivals from certain countries will be allowed unrestricted movement following a negative test on entry (further test on 5 or 7 days). Perhaps Mr. Quayle will be providing the Manx people with an update on the procurement of such equipment here & their plans for implementation.

 

On 9/23/2020 at 8:46 AM, Banker said:

Yes everyone has a plan whether you agree with it or not. We don’t have a plan at all!

 

On 9/24/2020 at 9:59 PM, wrighty said:

It's an established fact that Covid affects the young far less than the old, and the vast majority of 18-21 year old will have a mild or asymptomatic experience.  There will be odd ones who have it bad - but each year there are odd cases of meningitis among returning students, and we don't lock down for fear of that (yes I know we're not in a meningitis pandemic, but the likelihood of a serious illness or even death is at least comparable). My son went back last weekend - I've no doubt he'll be fine, but in some respects he may as well have stayed here.

I do feel sorry for the students, and for those going away to uni for the first time having to isolate with people they don't know, and then to be told it's illegal for them to go home - they must be wishing they hadn't bothered or at least deferred.  A big part of wanting them to return must be economic, rather than the government covertly pursuing a herd immunity strategy.  Without the fees universities will go bust, and many (not just academics) would lose jobs.

 

From time to time I have been paying attention to this thread I created last April. The discussion has evolved mainly onto the issues of the border restrictions and there has been an underestimation, in my opinion, of the problem of not been able to travel freely with the UK. Some business are simply not viable without freedom of movement. Some people also will find it very difficult for reasons related to their personal circumstances. I would guess, if you are a pensioner and most of you social life is on the island, this may not be apparent. I have absolutely nothing against pensioners rooted in the local community; but I wonder if they are the only kind of people we want to attract to the island. The government needs the revenue to fund the public services they use. Or their livelihood will degrade as well.

Setting aside economic and quality of life arguments; from a mere public health perspective, our “protective bubble” is likely to diminish our immunological resistances in the longer term. Look at the example of the 1918 flu pandemic. Here is The Isle of Man Times (I guess, the IOM Today of one hundred years ago) bulletin of the death toll of that pandemic in the Isle of Man:

2112114359___TheIsleofManTimespublishedwhatwastobecomethefinaldeathnoticeofSpanishFlu26-Apr-20.jpg.1d5868ca3e3e03e2d0741b9b733430ec.jpg

The 98 deaths back then must be seen in proportion to a population that was little more than half current size; thus the equivalent death toll today would be two hundred deaths. And that flu pandemic was mainly killing people in their prime, those aged between 20 and 40. In comparison, what we have now, this Covid thing, is a bad strain of cold with lethal consequences for a few who would have died anyway soon, in most cases. Back then, older people had greater immunity because they had already been exposed to viruses with a similar genetic makeup to the H1N1 strain of the Spanish flu. Those aged 28-40 had an immunological blind spot because their first flu exposure had been to the H3 virus of the 1890 “Russian flu”, which had a completely different genetic makeup.

What was so deadly special about that strain of influenza, in respect to those we have nowadays? Absolutely nothing. We know that because the 1918 bug was resurrected in 2005 by piecing together viral fragments from hospital specimens and victims buried in Alaskan permafrost; under conditions of maximum bio-security, which turned out to be unnecessary. If we were to infect us with that thing, it would do very little harm to most of us (for instance, I had the last severe bout of flu when I was seven, a mild one when I was nine, and absolutely nothing from there to my present middle age).

Why? One hundred years ago there was not sufficient international travel and population density to sustain influenza as a seasonal recurrence. Populations of isolated regions would remain unexposed to those common and usually not dangerous respiratory illnesses and thus would not develop adequate immunological defences; and when a bad strain more contagious than the usual would come along, they would be devastated. As it happened to some Alaskan villages, where 2/3 of inhabitants were mowed down by the 1918 flu pandemic.

That was the situation until the end of WWI. Since then, international travel and densely-populated city living have brought so much exposure to flu and related pathogens that they have become endemic; when a new wave of infection comes along, the general population reacts with stronger immune-resistance and thus serious illness is much less frequent.

Another meaningful example is what has happened with Covid-19 in New Delhi, where, amazingly, one-third of its 20 million inhabitants have turned up positive to Covid-19‘s antibodies; and the fatality rate of the infection, must be mentioned, has been very low, 0.09%, well below the IFR of the common flu. It is thought that the crammed conditions of living in New Delhi had previously exposed its inhabitants to so much of the cold-inducing coronaviruses, the cousins of Covid-19, to produce robust cross-coronavirus immunity.

For the time being the IOM government can get away with the border closure if people think that current travel restriction are a “once in a hundred year” event. If there start to be a suspect that it may be a recurrent policy, every time we have a bad flu season the border shuts for months; then, for many business, and for many people in the prime of their years, the isle would simply not be viable as a place to live and work. Recurrent borders closures would also led to generalised pathogenic-agent vulnerability and thus to a bad long-term health outcome (some immunologists says that exposure to the less pathogenic bugs keeps or immune system alert and fit to fend off the more serious illnesses). You may think that recurrent border closures are a far-fetched prospective. I hope so, but the likes of David Ashford would run a Covid dictatorship given half a chance; he is too dumb to admit it to himself and to recognise the consequences.

What would have happened in the British isles if their authorities had adopted more liberal forms of social distancing, policies closer to those implemented by the likes of Switzerland, Sweden, The Netherlands and Japan? It would have made no difference to the UK death toll and only led to an extra few premature deaths in this island of ours. The Jersey case clearly shows that it is possible to manage an open border.

Compare our quarantine policies with those of Switzerland. Currently, in Switzerland, there is no requirement to quarantine if returning from nearly all European countries. There is a list of countries deemed high risk; in which case one would be expected to “self-report” to the cantonal authorities and follow their directions. If they require to follow a period of self-isolation, that would not exclude going out for outdoor exercising or procuring food, if there is no other viable method to procure one’s food. Nobody has been prosecuted and jailed. That is what a liberal jurisdiction looks like.

One day, when the crisis will be seen in retrospective and conclusions will be drawn, a telling statistic will be made: which countries have jailed the most for Covid-related offences. The Isle of Man will be straight at the top of the table of Covid jail sentences dispensed on a per-capita basis, the pole position of the whole world! That will be the record and distinction of our jurisdiction and it will bear on its reputation, in the eyes of those who have retained sense of logic and proportion.
 

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8 minutes ago, WTF said:

how many stay returned  ? 

Not a lot looking at age demographics of population which is one if oldest in world.

there is limited opportunities outside egaming & finance and the nightlife is crap and that’s a quote from a recently left graduate.

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1 minute ago, Banker said:

Not a lot looking at age demographics of population which is one if oldest in world.

there is limited opportunities outside egaming & finance and the nightlife is crap and that’s a quote from a recently left graduate.

that was my thinking,  unless you have contacts that can get you on the government gravy train your degree isn't much use in  a coffee shop.

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7 minutes ago, WTF said:

that was my thinking,  unless you have contacts that can get you on the government gravy train your degree isn't much use in  a coffee shop.

But most government jobs are de-facto reserved to Manx born and/or long term residents; which is why may will stay. Imagine what would be otherwise...

 

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40 minutes ago, WTF said:

how many stay returned  ?

Judging by some of the comments on here how many would want to these days.

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1 hour ago, Apple said:

And it will be better than version 6 and although it will not register negative and positive results if your test was not done in the right place it will still allow us to monitor your movements, and those of who you meet up with. I feel more comfortable already.

The useless things are usually flat by lunchtime.

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3 hours ago, Banker said:

Not a lot looking at age demographics of population which is one if oldest in world.

there is limited opportunities outside egaming & finance and the nightlife is crap and that’s a quote from a recently left graduate.

Apart e-gaming, finance, law, accounting, auditing... And a government that has been, during the past few decades, responsive and led more by pragmatism than ideology; putting the interest of island first.

The problem is that easy connection with the UK and beyond are a key ingredient for the success of the island. Even if its retirees and some MHKs (who have already been vilified on this forum) don't seem to be capable to see it.

The issue is whether the covid crisis is one-off event or the beginning of a decline. Time will tell.

 

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4 hours ago, Filippo said:

.One day, when the crisis will be seen in retrospective and conclusions will be drawn, a telling statistic will be made: which countries have jailed the most for Covid-related offences. The Isle of Man will be straight at the top of the table of Covid jail sentences dispensed on a per-capita basis, the pole position of the whole world! That will be the record and distinction of our jurisdiction and it will bear on its reputation, in the eyes of those who have retained sense of logic and proportion.
 

I agree with that. Also maybe when it’s been established that herd immunity has been an important way out of this we’ll also realize that we ended up just about the only country in the entire world who had absolutely no exposure to it. I hope there will be no repercussions of that when we’re finally let loose to go back out into the world again. 

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5 hours ago, Filippo said:

 

One day, when the crisis will be seen in retrospective and conclusions will be drawn, a telling statistic will be made: which countries have jailed the most for Covid-related offences. The Isle of Man will be straight at the top of the table of Covid jail sentences dispensed on a per-capita basis, the pole position of the whole world! That will be the record and distinction of our jurisdiction and it will bear on its reputation, in the eyes of those who have retained sense of logic and proportion.
 

The Isle of Man is currently free. Take a walk down Strand Street and see for yourself, go round some of the pubs, hug a stranger etc. Nowhere else comes close.

Anyone jailed was jailed with knowledge they were breaking the law. 

I think you are taking what has been achieved for granted.

You made an intelligent thoughtful and enlightening post, but you blew it with your final paragraph.

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I wasn’t aware until recently that whilst people returning to the island are required to isolate, those that live in the same household, ie the very people who picked the returnee up from the airport/sea terminal and are spending a great deal of time with that person, are not required to isolate. Ticking time bomb right there IMO.

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1 minute ago, Annoymouse said:

I wasn’t aware until recently that whilst people returning to the island are required to isolate, those that live in the same household, ie the very people who picked the returnee up from the airport/sea terminal and are spending a great deal of time with that person, are not required to isolate. Ticking time bomb right there IMO.

The returnee has to isolate as far as possible from other members of the household, stay in a separate room, have their own bathroom or throughly clean after use, etc. 

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