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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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16 minutes ago, pongo said:

 

@BankerHow many years do you think it would take to gather enough data for it to be statistically meaningful or useful? The number of people arriving here is tiny.

I think Rachel Glover would disagree as she and others said the testing of 7 days was very useful in building up a picture of where cases were coming from, same as Guernsey are doing now with arrivals

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OK. For what it's worth I'm going to try and explain why genomics is important in a ssRNA virus epidemic. No doubt it will end up being recited badly at a briefing, but, well, whatever. You read it he

Rachel has tried every which way to re-offer her services. This last tweet wasn't the first time she's reached out. Government has made it very clear they do not want her to be involved. I want h

I think you'll find most so called anti-government rhetoric is focused on government-stupidity and government-selfishness. In recent times - under Brown, Bell and now Quayle - all too many govern

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Just now, thesultanofsheight said:

Yes. Firstly massive condolences as this is awful news that no family wants to get. But you’re right - they either died of covid when Ashford was clear that nobody was admitted with covid or was being treated primarily for covid at the hospital, or they died of something else (those two were said to have been away for treatment) after testing positive for covid. Either way questions now need to be answered. 

Or they could be one of the other 7/8 who were isolating at home and perhaps took ill. 

 

I don't know the answer by the way just pointing out another alternative 

 

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7 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

I hope they’re not up to their ‘cause of death’ tricks again as justification for something or to keep the fear of god in the population.

I wouldn’t want to speculate as this is terrible news for the family concerned. But honest answers now need to be given. They were either being treated for covid contrary to reports the other day, or were being treated for something else but had covid in their system (or as Thommo says maybe they were one of the ones at home and not in the hospital group which seems less likely). People are going to go into meltdown now anyway so they might as well take the opportunity to be honest. 

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Just now, thommo2010 said:

Or they could be one of the other 7/8 who were isolating at home and perhaps took ill. 

 

I don't know the answer by the way just pointing out another alternative 

 

If that is the case then we have someone that has returned with a strong strain of the virus or was vulnerable and returned with it. May be a catalyst for whole home isolations, or even tighter restrictions.

 

cant be threatening Howard’s little COVID free Isle..

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22 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

Sad news, sympathies.

BUT this means little Ashford has been lying to us surely if they died FROM COVID?

He said only the other day that two in hospital weren’t in hospital with COVID, but had tested positive as part of a process. Also that we didn’t have any critical cases, all safely self isolating at home.

What has drastically changed? Were one of the hospital cases in fact seriously there with COVID?

The standard international definition is a death within 28 days of a positive Covid detection whatever the actual cause is. 

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1 minute ago, John Wright said:

The standard international definition is a death within 28 days of a positive Covid detection whatever the actual cause is. 

Maybe when collecting mass data.

Small population with small numbers, they either died from it (per tweet) or with it.

But also the two hospital cases were routine, I think possibly even also having recently returned from Liverpool? Something drastic has changed here and it needs clarity.

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7 minutes ago, John Wright said:

The standard international definition is a death within 28 days of a positive Covid detection whatever the actual cause is. 

Correct and you assume they will have to fall in line with standard definitions for reporting purposes even if, say, someone was away for heart treatment and died of a heart attack after testing positive for covid. That’s not an attempt at speculation - that’s just trying to put that 28 day definition into some sort of loose context as the official cause of death could literally be anything but someone also had failed a covid test in the last month.  

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1 minute ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Correct and you assume they will have to fall in line with standard definitions for reporting purposes even if, say, someone was away for heart treatment and died of a heart attack after testing positive for covid. That’s not an attempt at speculation - that’s just trying to put that 28 day definition into some sort of loose context. 

Out of interest, I assume the same would be said of COVID ‘deaths’ at egtc Abbotswood? Even if someone was already end of life?

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1 minute ago, NoTailT said:

Out of interest, I assume the same would be said of COVID ‘deaths’ at egtc Abbotswood? Even if someone was already end of life?

I dont know when the 28 days came in. It wasn’t the definition at the start I don't think. 

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8 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I dont know when the 28 days came in. It wasn’t the definition at the start I don't think. 

At the start it was if you died at any time after previously testing positive they classed it as COVID death even 3 months after recovery, however it was changed to 28 days which still means if you died of cancer with COVID present it’s still a COVID death 

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7 minutes ago, Banker said:

At the start it was if you died at any time after previously testing positive they classed it as COVID death even 3 months after recovery, however it was changed to 28 days which still means if you died of cancer with COVID present it’s still a COVID death 

Thanks for clarifying I couldn’t remember. Good to see facts being debated. I see James Corrin is already using this report to responsibly (not) foretell a second wave hitting here. Irresponsible clown. But it will get the pitchfork mob out posting shite on his site soon enough. 

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14 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

Maybe when collecting mass data.

Small population with small numbers, they either died from it (per tweet) or with it.

The true test is what the doctors treating the patient would put on the death certificate.  The line between 'with' and 'from' is not as clear-cut as some might like though.  Someone might have a serious underlying, potentially fatal, condition, but Covid-19 might be what tips them over, even though they would have survived if their underlying health was better.

The way this has been announced shows for the umpteenth time just how inept these people are at dealing with the situation (the official press release says no more than Facebook).  They're more concerned with mentioning Quayle than telling people what is actually happening.  No doubt they'll make some unconvincing excuse about confidentiality.

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3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

 

The way this has been announced shows for the umpteenth time just how inept these people are at dealing with the situation (the official press release says no more than Facebook).  They're more concerned with mentioning Quayle than telling people what is actually happening.  No doubt they'll make some unconvincing excuse about confidentiality.

At least they havent dragged The Goz out this time

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23 minutes ago, NoTailT said:

Out of interest, I assume the same would be said of COVID ‘deaths’ at egtc Abbotswood? Even if someone was already end of life?

They would have all have underlying conditions (but so do half the population) or they wouldn't have been in a care home.  But many could have lived for years if they hadn't been infected.  I pointed out early on here that there hadn't been much of a corresponding fall in care home deaths since the Spring, which you would expect if these were people who only had a few weeks or months to live.  The latest graph is here:

image.png.26be77dd7c0ae476bda576a1653d3a9d.png

Most of these clearly weren't people at the very end of life.

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6 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

They would have all have underlying conditions (but so do half the population) or they wouldn't have been in a care home.  But many could have lived for years if they hadn't been infected.  I pointed out early on here that there hadn't been much of a corresponding fall in care home deaths since the Spring, which you would expect if these were people who only had a few weeks or months to live.  The latest graph is here:

The average stay in a UK care home is 462 days. So on average half will die after just over a year anyway according to the below link. So 28 days (to survive post covid) is a sizable chunk of their statistical remaining life expectancy.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51014346_Length_of_Stay_in_Care_Homes

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