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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

She was criminalised for breaching the regulations, within 15 minutes of arriving on island.

if she’d rung 999 or 111 I’m sure all the consequences you suggest might have happened. Or the emergency services might just have had a Jerry can, filled her up,  and no need for contact.

She was criminalized for something which is at best poor planning or poor decision making when faced with a situation she probably didn’t anticipate (the fuel light coming on). It’s fine to say if she’d rung the police, if she’d done this, or if she’d done that. But she didn’t probably as she was a bit flustered, or keen to get back home, or really didn’t think the scenario through because her immediate problem was I’m out of fuel and I need to get home ASAP to self isolate. It’s disgusting to criminalize people for things like that. 

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10 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I appreciate that but a fine seems rarely even an option here so we’re deliberately criminalizing people with custodial sentences for no clear benefit to anyone.

This in my mind happens quite a bit (and I am no screaming liberal), cannot see what society is trying to achieve by giving juveniles many of who are known by social services and/or CAMHs a criminal record for minor offences. I knew of case 2 years old with Castle Rushen teacher and student who was being seen by CAMHs on 2 weekly basis (i.e. had serious issues). The kid got it into his head that the teacher had it in for him and to get back at him got hold of his CC details, and ordered pizza to be delivered to his house. Naturally, this is not work of master criminal, but even though kids paid back money to teacher, and knew he went too far, and teacher still followed through letter of law and kid got done for fraud and theft. How is society meant to benefit from this..... (If want see endless other similar examples, just visit public gallery one day.)

With convictions in general they will be removed from a criminal record after 5 years (suspended sentences, fines, and community service supplementary to a suspended sentence), 10 years (custodial sentences less than 2 years, community service) or 20 years (custodial sentences between 2–5 years). I would argue that breaking COVID restrictions represents more serious risk to society than kid with issues wanting to eat a pizza in his house to get back at his teacher. IoM courts lot tougher than UK courts, and to me just so sad when hear of individuals who end up in dock who would of not been there with necessary support.

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The petrol one I go back and forth in my mind about but tbf it was a situation of her own making

If you go away and don't ensure you have sufficient food in your house upon your return then go to the shops you can't call mitigation surely?

Even once on the island she had a number of options available to her other than walk in the petrol station herself - she did it because she thought she'd get away with it.

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1 minute ago, thesultanofsheight said:

She was criminalized for something which is at best poor planning or poor decision making when faced with a situation she probably didn’t anticipate (the fuel light coming on). It’s fine to say if she’d rung the police, if she’d done this, or if she’d done that. But she didn’t probably as she was a bit flustered, or keen to get back home, or really didn’t think the scenario through because her immediate problem was I’m out of fuel and I need to get home ASAP to self isolate. It’s disgusting to criminalize people for things like that. 

But it sets a precedent then for an easy excuse for every other person caught breaching the rules?

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Just now, thesultanofsheight said:

She was criminalized for something which is at best poor planning or poor decision making when faced with a situation she probably didn’t anticipate (the fuel light coming on). It’s fine to say if she’d rung the police, if she’d done this, or if she’d done that. But she didn’t probably as she was a bit flustered, or keen to get back home, or really didn’t think the scenario through because her immediate problem was I’m out of fuel and I need to get home ASAP to self isolate. It’s disgusting to criminalize people for things like that. 

Yes, hard cases make bad law. And I’m not in favour of prison for 90% of those who get sent there by the courts. I’m not defending prison, or, particularly, her sentence. I’m pointing out that your stance doesn’t hold water. You overstate your case to make a confused point. It doesn’t work.

Yes, the directions and warnings should be better, stronger, worded.

Yes, we should have border testing.

Yes we should have geo locator tagging.

Yes, for most people they shouldn’t be in prison, but need support and in many cases mental health input.

But having chosen the policy our politicians have, vis a vis borders, the sentences are the logical foreseeable consequence.

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3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Funny then that we’ve jailed now 16 or 17 people for similar ridiculous offenses and yet it’s not stopping anything is it? 

Maybe the clue is in the fact that the very abnormal quarantine, and earlier lock down, has only resulted in so few breaches getting to court and prison.

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4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Maybe the clue is in the fact that the very abnormal quarantine, and earlier lock down, has only resulted in so few breaches getting to court and prison.

Not really as we haven’t policed any of it have we? Almost every person in prison got there because some nosy busybody somewhere reported them (the petrol lady was shopped by the garage). The police or the coronavirus team have found comparatively nobody so the only way the numbers would be higher would be the authorities actually doing something to police the draconian laws they passed. But no in a cowardly way they chose to let members of society turn on each other instead.  

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10 minutes ago, monasqueen said:

If the general public did not report people seen flouting isolation/quarantine rules, we'd have Coronavirus in the community by now.

But my point is if it’s that important where is the resource in the coronavirus team? If protecting us and our quarantine rules is that important to protect us that people are being thrown in jail you’d have expected hundreds of people to be drafted in straight away surely so that government was all over the process and yet still comparatively few checks are being done by the people actually charged with doing them. Even less so with the police - so really you assume that it can’t be that important at all can it if we’ve got more people making sure the buses and choo choo’s still run and helping to run rundown castles and heritage sites than we have on checking that people are not breaching self isolation rules. That’s why the virus will come back. 

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47 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Funny then that we’ve jailed now 16 or 17 people for similar ridiculous offenses and yet it’s not stopping anything is it? 

no that's not what I meant, I meant if the courts upheld the lady's  mitigation then others would use the same excuse

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8 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

no that's not what I meant, I meant if the courts upheld the lady's  mitigation then others would use the same excuse

It seems very clear that there is no mitigation anyway. A breach is a breach no matter how it happened which is pretty much what you get in places like Chile or Saudi where the state has the right to lock you up for anything they can get you for because they’re the state and you have no rights. 

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She could have rung the police for advise but no she just did her own thing and also did not cooperate when challenged.   Everyone of those imprisoned deserved it, the only two I feel sorry for are the teenagers who followed their boss”s instruction when he drove them to Tesco.   He admitted on MR he knew it was wrong.   These chancers that think they are above the law ask for all they get and putting them in prison is actually the only certain way to make sure they did not go out drinking, watching football in a busy pub, going to Macs the minute the Police’s back was turned if they had just been warned.   Some people have no respect for the law or any other human being.   

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@thesultanofsheight and @Rhumsaa

Is it 16 or 17 out of key workers and returning residents, say 5500-6000, since 24 March? Or is it 16 or 17 out of 85000 residents, for 4 months lock down,  and 5500-6000 key workers/returnees?

Im fairly certain it’s the latter. And that it’s been police detected or actuated arrests in at least half.

I totally agree the snitching is distasteful. We should have better track, trace & follow up. But I’m not sure that displacing railway, or museum, workers would be very effective. It was a bit Fred Karmo at Nobles when train drivers were providing security in the early lock down days.

Theres a nasty FB spat going on over on FB. Man criticising the police for not prosecuting his daughter, who he may, or may not,  have dobbed in.

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1 minute ago, John Wright said:

I totally agree the snitching is distasteful. We should have better track, trace & follow up. But I’m not sure that displacing railway, or museum, workers would be very effective. It was a bit Fred Karmo at Nobles when train drivers were providing security in the early lock down days.

Theres a nasty FB spat going on over on FB. Man criticising the police for not prosecuting his daughter, who he may, or may not,  have dobbed in.

I saw the start of that, didn't realise it was a family member and that is only going to end in tears.... very sad to see

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