IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Rhumsaa 3,088]

2 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

It seems very clear that there is no mitigation anyway. A breach is a breach no matter how it happened which is pretty much what you get in places like Chile or Saudi where the state has the right to lock you up for anything they can get you for because they’re the state and you have no rights. 

I think you're making a bit of a leap

I am not a fan of police states in any way shape or form

I'm simply saying in this one example if the excuse of "well I just needed to get some fuel or I'd have run out and not made it home" (which is unprovable really because it's a perception even if you did the fuel purchase maths) was given weight then going forward any future isolation breaker just has to make up a similar excuse and it has a precedence.

[thesultanofsheight 9,453]

20 minutes ago, John Wright said:

@thesultanofsheight and @Rhumsaa

Is it 16 or 17 out of key workers and returning residents, say 5500-6000, since 24 March? Or is it 16 or 17 out of 85000 residents, for 4 months lock down,  and 5500-6000 key workers/returnees?

Im fairly certain it’s the latter. And that it’s been police detected or actuated arrests in at least half.

I agree it’s probably the latter. But as I said it’s probably largely down to the fact that the only people policing this seem to be the public in most cases. I’m glad you agree that it’s distasteful too. But it seems to have been the deliberate tactic by government - again presumably in order to police this all on the cheap. Just create a culture of fear and empower a few nosey nut jobs who know they can dob people in it and put them in jail and it will police itself. Only it hasn’t. If everything is even half as serious as we are being told then absolutely hundreds of people should have been drafted in to get their arms round all of this but it never happened and all of a sudden fixing the MER and the prom jumped back to the top of governments agenda with some token jailings thrown in on top just to under line the culture of fear. But prison sentences per see have not made any of our front line covid defenses any more robust really have they? More 111 people and more testing probably would have though! 

Edited November 8, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[TheTeapot 9,906]

2 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

 But it seems to have been the deliberate tactic by government 

Same approach to drugs, deterrent sentencing. It's an awful thing to do really, add an extra couple of years onto some 19 year old ecstasy users sentence as a warning to others. That's basically what they're doing in these cases, using people to send a message. 

[Roger Mexico 9,448]

32 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

It seems very clear that there is no mitigation anyway. A breach is a breach no matter how it happened which is pretty much what you get in places like Chile or Saudi where the state has the right to lock you up for anything they can get you for because they’re the state and you have no rights. 

That's a bit hyperbolic.  There's clearly been a load of times where people were just warned and in some of these court cases that has been said explicitly and people were only arrested on a subsequent breach.  It's pretty clear that if petrol station woman had responded more sensibly to the police when they called, that she would have just got a ticking off.

[Debbie 32]

38 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I totally agree the snitching is distasteful.

There is a nasty FB spat going on over on FB. Man criticising the police for not prosecuting his daughter, who he may, or may not,  have dobbed in.

 

35 minutes ago, Rhumsaa said:

I saw the start of that, didn't realise it was a family member and that is only going to end in tears.... very sad to see

 

That shows the extent of the damage to people mental health, to sanity.

The political necessities of the Covid restrictions have been corrosive to humanity.

[the stinking enigma 11,202]

The taxi driver that reported the lady fleeing to a refuge. Did they as a result have to self isolate for 14 days? And why is it called self isolation anyway? Self implies choice

[Gladys 6,922]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

That's a bit hyperbolic.  There's clearly been a load of times where people were just warned and in some of these court cases that has been said explicitly and people were only arrested on a subsequent breach.  It's pretty clear that if petrol station woman had responded more sensibly to the police when they called, that she would have just got a ticking off.

And that is another point, if the fact she was arsey led to a charge and conviction, was that an aggravating factor?  Neither the aggravating factor nor any mitigating factor should have changed the risk and so the outcome, surely? She wasn't charged with resisting arrest or assaulting a police officer was she? 

 

[Gladys 6,922]

7 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

The taxi driver that reported the lady fleeing to a refuge. Did they as a result have to self isolate for 14 days? And why is it called self isolation anyway? Self implies choice

No, self implies that you do it yourself rather than being supervised, no choice in it. 

[the stinking enigma 11,202]

So why not just call it isolating? Seems a petty point but it's been minutely troubling me for 6 months now

[John Wright 8,087]

36 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I agree it’s probably the latter. But as I said it’s probably largely down to the fact that the only people policing this seem to be the public in most cases. I’m glad you agree that it’s distasteful too. But it seems to have been the deliberate tactic by government - again presumably in order to police this all on the cheap. Just create a culture of fear and empower a few nosey nut jobs who know they can dob people in it and put them in jail and it will police itself. Only it hasn’t. If everything is even half as serious as we are being told then absolutely hundreds of people should have been drafted in to get their arms round all of this but it never happened and all of a sudden fixing the MER and the prom jumped back to the top of governments agenda with some token jailings thrown in on top just to under line the culture of fear. But prison sentences per see have not made any of our front line covid defenses any more robust really have they? More 111 people and more testing probably would have though! 

There you go again. 

I don’t think they deliberately set out to create a state of fear or a Stasi reporting network. They were justifying extraordinary measures in extraordinary times with a new virus. 

Apart from lowering the curve, protecting the NHS, it has, since June, allowed virtually everything to operate as normal.

You criticise the border policy. I agree we are in a cul de sac and no exit strategy, but that’s no reason not to continue the prom, the MER, the Liverpool terminal, and dozens of other infrastructure jobs*. They don’t just employ key workers, but lots of locals, long term, who spend, and whilst employed don’t require to be furloughed or on income replacement and other benefits.

Its better to carry on with these projects, so things are progressed, some even completed, by the time borders are re opened.

* doesn’t imply I agree with what they’ve chosen to spend some of that money on. Horse trams on reconstructed prom and Liverpool  terminal are pure vanity waste in my eyes. 

[thesultanofsheight 9,453]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I don’t think they deliberately set out to create a state of fear or a Stasi reporting network. They were justifying extraordinary measures in extraordinary times with a new virus. 

That’s where we disagree they knew exactly what they were doing. And they’ve got the end results they wanted in some of the outrageously insular behaviours that are still being exhibited. I criticize the way the border policy has been implemented with some holes in it and some awful extra-draconian measures (like not allowing family and friends to visit like other islands have). Not the actual need for border restrictions. Surely it’s better to throw resource at getting this allegedly life and death situation right rather than tat around with some infrastructure projects that can wait (MER lines etc). Especially when those projects have actually brought in key workers some of whom have been the worst offenders? 

[Roger Mexico 9,448]

16 minutes ago, Gladys said:

And that is another point, if the fact she was arsey led to a charge and conviction, was that an aggravating factor?  Neither the aggravating factor nor any mitigating factor should have changed the risk and so the outcome, surely? She wasn't charged with resisting arrest or assaulting a police officer was she? 

Actually she was:

Magistrates jailed her for four weeks.

She was also sentenced to one week, to run concurrently, after admitting resisting arrest.

No pleas were entered to two charges of driving offences, and her next appearance at Douglas Courthouse will be on 15 October.

And of course the sort of behaviour that someone would have to display to get convicted of resisting arrest will also be the sort that would increase the risk of spreading Covid.

[John Wright 8,087]

3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

That’s where we disagree they knew exactly what they were doing. And they’ve got the end results they wanted in some of the outrageously insular behaviours that are still being exhibited. I criticize the way the border policy has been implemented with some holes in it and some awful extra-draconian measures (like not allowing family and friends to visit like other islands have). Not the actual need for border restrictions. Surely it’s better to throw resource at getting this allegedly life and death situation right rather than tat around with some infrastructure projects that can wait (MER lines etc). Especially when those projects have actually brought in key workers some of whom have been the worst offenders? 

The cost of having, and implementing, and effectively policing a sane and sensible border policy is peanuts, and no reason to stop ongoing infrastructure projects.

Nor is an infraction by very few people reason to tighten the policy or tar all key workers with that brush.

[Mr Helmut Fromage 1,125]

45 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

That’s where we disagree they knew exactly what they were doing. And they’ve got the end results they wanted in some of the outrageously insular behaviours that are still being exhibited. 

Bewildering statement - it implies our scattergun reactionary Government made up of average intelligence plodders have had a master plan all along and executed this flawlessly over 9 months to achieve their desired & satisfactory outcome via their actions - and nobody outside the corridors of power has any knowledge or clue ?

Do you honestly think Rob Callister or Skelly or INSERT NAME HERE could contain their vanity if they thought they were part of Islands Illuminati....

[thesultanofsheight 9,453]

50 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Bewildering statement - Do you honestly think Rob Callister or Skelly or INSERT NAME HERE could contain their vanity if they thought they were part of Islands Illuminati....

It’s not them running the show or making or implementing any of these totalitarian policies though is it? The civil service has been run on fear and psychological bullying for decades.