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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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11 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Now I'm worried.  When TDDB is running around shouting "Nothing to see here!", something has probably gone very wrong.

The Government's problem is they they went from "No one's in hospital with Covid" to "Someone's died in hospital with Covid" very quickly.  People tend not to die from Covid very quickly - it can take weeks, even months to kill people.  There may be all sorts of ways of explaining it, but they need to do so or people are going to come up with all sorts of mad theories.

This can be done easily without naming victims - I'll point yet again to the press releases that the New Zealand Government put out every day - even if it's just to say there are no new cases.  They even do so on Saturdays and Sundays.  Click on several of those and you'll see the pattern.  If they don't yet know something they'll say so and follow it up on later days.  If there are small community outbreaks they give details of which groups are being tested and what other people who might be affected should do.

So you're saying it's impossible for someone to die of covid quickly?  I didn't realise you were an expert on it (although maybe I should have realised).

It isn't a case of "nothing to see here ".  It's a case someone died from covid.  

It's seems more important to pander to nutters than just pet normal people who can read.

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3 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:
18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

People tend not to die from Covid very quickly - it can take weeks, even months to kill people. 

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So you're saying it's impossible for someone to die of covid quickly?   

[..] It's seems more important to pander to nutters than just pet normal people who can read.

Can I suggest you find one of those normal people and ask them for lessons?

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20 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The Government's problem is they they went from "No one's in hospital with Covid" to "Someone's died in hospital with Covid" very quickly.  People tend not to die from Covid very quickly - it can take weeks, even months to kill people.  There may be all sorts of ways of explaining it, but they need to do so or people are going to come up with all sorts of mad theories.

My exact point. It needs concise direct and honest PR to address these points before people go mad(der) and make stuff up and panic spreads. 

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7 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

So you're saying it's impossible for someone to die of covid quickly?  I didn't realise you were an expert on it (although maybe I should have realised).

It isn't a case of "nothing to see here ".  It's a case someone died from covid.  

It's seems more important to pander to nutters than just pet normal people who can read.

The 47 year old rail worker who died of Covid was admitted to hospital on a Thursday and had died by the Sunday. As you say, Covid can kill quickly.

A little bit more detail would help- why were they in hospital already, etc- but that wouldn't change much. Say they're elderly and/or frail and you'd just get the usual suspects saying they'd have died anyway so it doesn't matter.

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1 minute ago, thesultanofsheight said:

My exact point. It needs concise direct and honest PR to address these points before people go mad and make stuff up and panic spreads. 

Why would there be anything to panic about?

I'm fairly keen on not catching Covid-19, but I can't see any fathomable reason to panic because we had a Covid-19 death. It kills people. We know this. We can see it worldwide. The only reason a death here would cause panic is if it was a substantially different strain. Which is unlikely given the infinitesimally small genetic pool of the virus here.

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11 minutes ago, tetchtyke said:

UK police can fine people £10,000 as a *fixed penalty notice*, and have been doing gleefully this week, including fining an 18yo lad ten grand because his house party got gatecrashed.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8852201/Family-18-year-old-hit-10-000-Covid-fine-refuse-pay-penalty-blame-drunk-gatecrashers.html

So much for the Manx laws being harsh!

That’s not harsh at all compared to here. 

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4 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

It needs concise direct and honest PR to address these points

There is no such thing. PR is a euphemism for propaganda (and vice versa).

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Just now, thesultanofsheight said:

That’s not harsh at all compared to here. 

The maximum fine here is £10,000, and a judge has to issue that. Nobody has had the maximum fine.

Unless you're trying to argue that a week in Jurby is worse than having an 18yo find ten grand?

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6 minutes ago, tetchtyke said:

The 47 year old rail worker who died of Covid was admitted to hospital on a Thursday and had died by the Sunday. As you say, Covid can kill quickly.

A little bit more detail would help- why were they in hospital already, etc- but that wouldn't change much. Say they're elderly and/or frail and you'd just get the usual suspects saying they'd have died anyway so it doesn't matter.

There are also data protection issues.  In reality it is confidential.  We don't go splashing details of every death around the public domain.  The family may not wish to consent to it.

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Dying from covid and dying with covid may be two completely different things, but for official stats you count as a ‘death from covid’ if you die within 28 days of a positive test. 
 

It’s helpful to have a standard definition which is informative on a population basis. Less so here with a small population. And given it’s a small population, I can understand why the government aren’t saying something like “our latest covid death had recently been diagnosed with x and that was what killed him/her not the virus” - that’s basically releasing personal medical information in a press conference. 
 

Just to confirm - I have no inside information on this latest case, and am illustrating rather than speculating or confirming suspicions. 

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1 minute ago, wrighty said:

It’s helpful to have a standard definition which is informative on a population basis. Less so here with a small population. And given it’s a small population, I can understand why the government aren’t saying something like “our latest covid death had recently been diagnosed with x and that was what killed him/her not the virus” - that’s basically releasing personal medical information in a press conference. 

But you don't need to specify x in that case.  You just say "died from another condition which we are satisfied was not exacerbated by his viral infection" or something similar.  And you offer reassurance about shielding and so on.  No one is alleging a cover-up here, just that poor communication will make some people think that there might have been.

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Exactly.

If it was a member of my family, what ever age, I would not want any details put out about their medical circumstances. people can sometime be careless about personal clinical information (just ask the Information Commissioner) and the several reports from DHSC this year where is is supposed to have happened - clinical letters sent to wrong address for example.

Also, see John Wrights comments on what he overheard from the locum's telephone call when he was on his own clinical appointment.

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50 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

My exact point. It needs concise direct and honest PR to address these points before people go mad(der) and make stuff up and panic spreads. 

It is up to the family to decide when information is released, not the government. Relatives have to be informed, etc. 

Calm down, Karen!

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