IOM Covid removing restrictions

[wrighty 5,348]

2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

From whom?

I know, but they don’t want me to say. 

[John Wright 7,905]

5 hours ago, wrighty said:

That was my first thought, but with the uncertainty around the vaccine preventing spread as opposed to disease it makes sense to target the vulnerable (to both the disease and to getting it - so old folk and care staff) first.

This is being distributed to those of us who have/had blood cancer.

It also explains how they each work, why the fast testing is ok, and the order in which the vaccine will be rolled out, and why.

of course it’s written to provide some comfort and reassurance to its target audience, people who have or had leukaemias or  lymphomas, it is well written and intelligible.

https://bloodcancer.org.uk/news/coronavirus-vaccine-what-you-need-know/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Coronavirus&utm_term=Vaccine+blog&utm_content=25+Nov&fbclid=IwAR1h4AO2g9A9kmeqnFX5UTd_WdhInj0WufcXgg50fH1hphuYi5JqWbIWorQ

[Black Mirror 73]

Leaders across the world have repeatedly said that any Covid vaccine will not be mandatory. Just google on this topic, and plenty of likewise statements turns out from many different countries. See for instance these two regarding Scotland and Wales:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55035521

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54254371

Or this one regarding Israel (a country with strict lockdown policies):

https://www.timesofisrael.com/health-minister-said-to-mull-law-making-coronavirus-vaccination-compulsory

Thus, I am surprised that some posters on this forum almost give for granted that there will be some type of mandatory requirement. See my previous few posting on the problem with having mandatory Covid vaccination.

Of course, it is very possible that politics will get into it. Mark my words, if such compulsion does happen, it is something that it is going to be deeply regretted later on.

[pongo 4,335]

8 minutes ago, Black Mirror said:

Thus, I am surprised that some posters on this forum almost give for granted that there will be some type of mandatory requirement. See my previous few posting on the problem with having mandatory Covid vaccination.

Of course, it is very possible that politics will get into it. Mark my words, if such compulsion does happen, it is something that it is going to be deeply regretted later on.

I doubt it will be compulsory. But I suspect that that health passports will be a de facto requirement enforced by employers, private companies and organisations because their staff, customers and shareholders demand it. For example, to fly, land in another country, go to a supermarket, the cinema, university, place of employment etc.

The new narrative amongst anti-vaxxers will be that these things have not been adequately tested - missing the point that the intensity and focus on testing has effectively accelerated that process by concentrating additional resources and man-hours. Because very much more money has been put into this.

Edited November 25, 2020 by pongo

[Barlow 674]

10 minutes ago, Black Mirror said:

 if such compulsion does happen, it is something that it is going to be deeply regretted later on.

Why?

[All Right 50]

1 hour ago, pongo said:

I doubt it will be compulsory. But I suspect that that health passports will be a de facto requirement enforced by employers, private companies and organisations because their staff, customers and shareholders demand it. For example, to fly, land in another country, go to a supermarket, the cinema, university, place of employment etc.

Why? This pandemic is seeing off very low numbers and those who are going are in acknowledged high risk groups. It’s hard to see that everyone will be clamoring to force inject people with a cure to something that won’t kill them and which won’t kill anyone around them either. What you seem to be talking about is hype and conformity. The minute class actions rear their heads (as they will in the US especially) they will change their tune on vaccination to access services.

Edited November 25, 2020 by All Right
Typo

[boswellian 49]

On 11/22/2020 at 9:56 PM, Roger Mexico said:

Obviously if no one is tested then there won't be any positive test results, but there could still be infections - hopefully only among those isolating.  But every positive test result is an infection - as Rachel explained in her excellent presentation 'false positives' are very rare indeed in the type of testing we use on the Island.

What may lie behind this question is the belief that a positive test somehow doesn't mean that it is a 'proper' case of Covid-19 if there are no symptoms.  This simply isn't true - the definition of the disease is a lab test showing the presence of the organism that causes it.  What is more this is true of every infectious disease, not just Covid-19.  It has to be this way, because no disease has a unique set of symptoms which every infected person has and which no person suffering from any other disease does.  It's the way medicine works.

And in this infection there's also the fact that we know those not showing any symptoms can infect others - even if they never go on to show any later.  The number of completely asymptomatic people may be lower than has been thought - latest estimates are about 20% - but they can still give it to others.

It is good to be free of fear. Fear is very bad for the immune system. 

 

[Apple 632]

1 hour ago, pongo said:

I doubt it will be compulsory.

I think it will be voluntary, at first. the we will be 'nudged' to have it. We will no doubt hear much, much more about the hew normal and gradually lose our 'choices'  in order to to enjoy our 'freedoms'. 

Bit like banks and post offices I suppose.

[AcousticallyChallenged 802]

1 hour ago, All Right said:

Why? This pandemic is seeing off very low numbers and those who are going are in acknowledged high risk groups. It’s hard to see that everyone will be clamoring to force inject people with a cure to something that won’t kill them and which won’t kill anyone around them either. What you seem to be talking about is hype and conformity. The minute class actions rear their heads (as they will in the US especially) they will change their tune on vaccination to access services.

You say this like vaccination isn't a common requirement anyway.

In France, you have to have proof of a number of vaccinations before you're allowed to send your child to school. https://www.thelocal.fr/20190906/which-vaccinations-are-compulsory-for-children-in-france

In a number of places, you'll need to prove you've been vaccinated against nasties to travel to or from.

[pongo 4,335]

1 hour ago, All Right said:

Why? This pandemic is seeing off very low numbers and those who are going are in acknowledged high risk groups. It’s hard to see that everyone will be clamoring to force inject people with a cure to something that won’t kill them and which won’t kill anyone around them either. What you seem to be talking about is hype and conformity. The minute class actions rear their heads (as they will in the US especially) they will change their tune on vaccination to access services.

Nobody is going to be forcing anyone to be injected or to conform. Or to take a flight, visit another country, go to the supermarket etc.

Be free. You can even be a rebel and paint your bedroom black if your really want. 

[All Right 50]

7 hours ago, pongo said:

Nobody is going to be forcing anyone to be injected or to conform. Or to take a flight, visit another country, go to the supermarket etc.

Confusing, you appear to say one thing then you say the exact opposite in an apparent attempt to try to sound clever. It’s either one thing or the other surely?

[Nom de plume 1,026]

3 hours ago, All Right said:

Confusing, you appear to say one thing then you say the exact opposite in an apparent attempt to try to sound clever. It’s either one thing or the other surely?

Yes, it’s conform or lose your basic freedoms to travel & exist.

There is no middle ground.

[Apple 632]

27 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Yes, it’s conform or lose your basic freedoms to travel & exist.

Conform is such an ugly word, isn't it. Lets say we will be nudged in the right direction.

All for the benefit of the many of course.

Perhaps even make it a condition of our travel insurance.  Or maybe we will have to "Opt out". 

[All Right 50]

28 minutes ago, Nom de plume said:

Yes, it’s conform or lose your basic freedoms to travel & exist.

There is no middle ground.

Well yes which was my point but I’m confused as to why someone who posted “But I suspect that that health passports will be a de facto requirement enforced by employers, private companies and organisations because their staff, customers and shareholders demand it” then sort of mocks me for suggesting that people will likely be forced to comply with vaccination requirements as that’s what they said too.

I don’t believe it will be mandatory but I do believe the world has lost its head to such an alarming degree that it’s likely inevitable that you will see your life being restricted if you don’t conform with their expectations and requirements. 

[Banker 986]

Is there a reason we can’t use the rapid testing described below being used in UK to try & ease travel restrictions?

Tier-three areas will be eligible for rapid or "lateral flow" coronavirus tests - which give results in about 20 minutes without the need for a lab - to help bring down infections and reduce restrictions