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IOM Covid removing restrictions


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1 hour ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

I don't know how a doctorate in Physics will help you much with virology really, given that a PhD is particularly niche at the best of times.

Formal training in science helps but based on @spoiledbratoframsey posts I do not think he/she has any training in science. As @Scotty said they do not seem right in the head. It is just a troll and here I am blocking user.

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9 minutes ago, BenFairfax said:

Formal training in science helps but based on @spoiledbratoframsey posts I do not think he/she has any training in science. As @Scotty said they do not seem right in the head. It is just a troll and here I am blocking user.

Just for curiosity, what do you mean with "I am blocking user"? You are not a moderator. There has been far worse on this forum. I did not harass anyone; as trolls typically do.

I don't remember the last time I had bragged about my academic qualifications; I could not help when I was accused to be a flat earther. I actually have a doctorate in Physics; plus a degree in a professional subject.

You realise that there is a part of the British and American press/establishment that is instigating, nearly openly, rebellion against lockdown. It is not a struggle I am fighting on my own as a deranged. There have been 160 arrests in London TODAY, from a demo of 10,000 that would have been much bigger had police not blocked access. Yes, it is a still minority. But the majority is not needed to thwart the control freaks as concerns the virus and the other things.

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42 minutes ago, Black Mirror said:

But many governments, within the European Union and elsewhere, have already said that they won't impose Covid vaccinations. Nor force them through the backdoor by restricting freedoms.

You will see that those other governments that, instead, try to link travel to vaccinations will find it very difficult as an imposition, especially over time.

Many here don't seem to understand what is at stake. Nor seen to understand how hard a part of the population will keep pushing against such an imposition.

Lots of governments have particularly in Southern Hemisphere eg Australia, New Zealand  have said they will impose restrictions & I haven’t seen anything from EU saying they WONT impose restrictions on non vaccinated residents and certainly airlines will once its fully rolled out

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1 hour ago, BenFairfax said:

Formal training in science helps but based on @spoiledbratoframsey posts I do not think he/she has any training in science. As @Scotty said they do not seem right in the head. It is just a troll and here I am blocking user.

I agree, it helps understand what's going on, but in the case of @spoiledbratoframsey, they're just coming across as someone like the guy from Doncaster with the flat cap on that was shouting a lot on YouTube after the key worker incident.

46 minutes ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

Just for curiosity, what do you mean with "I am blocking user"? You are not a moderator. There has been far worse on this forum. I did not harass anyone; as trolls typically do.

Trolling can be far more nuanced than just directing insults towards someone. In your case, it seems to be more along the lines of stirring the pot. Individuals can choose to block certain posters so they don't have to be faced with their posts.

 

48 minutes ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

You realise that there is a part of the British and American press/establishment that is instigating, nearly openly, rebellion against lockdown. It is not a struggle I am fighting on my own as a deranged. There have been 160 arrests in London TODAY, from a demo of 10,000 that would have been much bigger had police not blocked access. Yes, it is a still minority. But the majority is not needed to thwart the control freaks as concerns the virus and the other things.

Surely with a doctorate in anything, you'd know that 0.15% of anything is still just a drop in the ocean? A few studies, published in your beloved media show how people are in favour of restrictions. Of course, tabloids like the Daily Mail aren't known for their rigorous journalism at the best of times anyway. So take anything they say with several pinches of salt.

The real travesty is that too little too late has repeatedly left the UK and their businesses clinging on for dear life. When you have a government openly ignoring advice, it's no shocker to end up in the same place more than once.

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1 hour ago, Black Mirror said:

But many governments, within the European Union and elsewhere, have already said that they won't impose Covid vaccinations. Nor force them through the backdoor by restricting freedoms.

You will see that those other governments that, instead, try to link travel to vaccinations will find it very difficult as an imposition, especially over time.

 

It won't be governments that will want vaccinations, rather the companies that provide the services - insurance, transport etc. 

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8 hours ago, Apple said:

It won't be governments that will want vaccinations, rather the companies that provide the services - insurance, transport etc. 

also a lot of governments are demanding negative PCR tests before allowing entry eg Spain, Italy,Cyprus , UAE etc

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9 hours ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Surely with a doctorate in anything, you'd know that 0.15% of anything is still just a drop in the ocean? A few studies, published in your beloved media show how people are in favour of restrictions. Of course, tabloids like the Daily Mail aren't known for their rigorous journalism at the best of times anyway. So take anything they say with several pinches of salt.

The real travesty is that too little too late has repeatedly left the UK and their businesses clinging on for dear life. When you have a government openly ignoring advice, it's no shocker to end up in the same place more than once.

 

10 hours ago, Banker said:

Lots of governments have particularly in Southern Hemisphere eg Australia, New Zealand  have said they will impose restrictions & I haven’t seen anything from EU saying they WONT impose restrictions on non vaccinated residents and certainly airlines will once its fully rolled out.

 

19 hours ago, Lxxx said:

The vaccine will have an impact on the virus, only a fool would dispute otherwise. We as yet do not know the extent of that impact and whether it will deliver long term on it's apparent promise short term. This has been widely acknowledged. Those are the current facts and as with any new technology the results will emerge over time. It's a reasonable view to take whether it be a vaccine, statin or a vitamin supplement.

Regardless of your A level biology qualification the industry still needs data to support it's assumptions, which is why they are conducting ongoing trials and surveillance once it gets rolled out. To monitor efficacy and safety.

 

14 hours ago, Gladys said:

I am not advocating forced vaccination, but for everyone to think seriously about their contribution to managing this virus.

However, I was reminded a few days ago about how your child would not be accepted into school without the MMR.  It wasn't forced, but your child couldn't start state education without it.  I am not sure what the position on that is now, but it was the case when my children were starting their education.

 

Oh gosh, you are so deluded! You see the whole problem from the perspective of an islander retiree whose life (social, economic etc) is nearly all comprehended within the perimeter of the island; apart from a few holidays. You appear not being able to even consider that there might be a different point of view, as legitimate as yours. I am not going to get into the bragging game of academic and professional qualifications. Nonetheless, among my circle of middle-aged accomplished globetrotters, there is not one, not one of them, who has a substantially different opinion on the virus, this virus... the idiotic government response to this virus; the vexatious issue of mandatory vaccinations. They all had MMR on their children without hesitation. They all would set off a bomb (or fund someone to do it on their behalf; better!) rather than having a Covid vaccine pumped into their body. Because, they cannot live in a world in which the government has so much power on the individual. – We never had so much argument about all the other viruses and vaccines, prior to Covid; those are legitimate health issues. We are having so much argument about Covid, because Covid is politics.

Most leaders of the part of the world we regard as “free” (laugh…) have clearly stated that Covid vaccinations won’t be made mandatory. Neither by direct legislation, nor by indirect coercion through travel restrictions etc. I won’t quote the Trump administration, obviously, though you know where America stands (the US is too divided to agree on any coherent Covid policy); just three other meaningful examples.

The Swiss government has stated on a number of occasions that any Covid vaccine will be voluntary. Specifically, Swiss Health Minister Alain Berset has recently said: “Swiss law does not allow us to force someone to get vaccinated against their will; and there is no plan to change that legislation”.

You said that all but a tiny percentage of people agree with your point of view. Well, in Switzerland, only half of the population is eager to have the Covid vaccine; and 2/3 of Swiss are against making it mandatory. Read it by yourself here:

https://lenews.ch/2020/10/09/coronavirus-half-would-take-vaccine-in-switzerland

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/can-switzerland-convince-its-people-to-take-the-covid-19-vaccine--/46169830

You would find similar statistics about public opinion in the US; on the issue of Covid vaccines.

Boris Johnson, during his most recent – absurd – fortnight of Covid self-isolation (which happened about two weeks ago) made this specific statement in an online conference: "Let's be clear, there will be no compulsory vaccination. That's not the way we do things in this country.”

UK law forbids compulsory vaccinations. It explicitly states that the government powers to prevent or mitigate the spread of a pandemic infection cannot include mandatory requirements to undertake medical treatment and/or vaccination. The Coronavirus 2020 bill introduced in March 2020 restates this prohibition and extends it to Scotland and Northern Ireland.

And, I believe there is enough rationality within CoMin to understand well the vexatious issues behind any policy of mandatory vaccinations. At the time in which Pfizer came out with its phase III result, I heard David Ashford on Manx Radio state that “you can’t make vaccinations mandatory” and that “there is so much we don’t know yet [regarding those vaccines]”.

Historically, key areas of policy concern with CoMin have been the financial viability of the island as an independent entity; and preventing the island becoming a geriatric facility. As I had explained with my previous posting to this thread, there could be serious legal and financial implications with an outlier policy of mandatory vaccinations on this island. And any such a policy would trounce especially hard on young people’s rights and their likely point of view of the matter; considering that Covid is less dangerous than common seasonal flu for the under 40s. I think we can trust the legal and financial advisers of CoMin more than their medical counsel; and the sensitivity of MHKs’ antennae for protecting their pensions and those of their cronies; to do the right thing to protect those vested interests.
 

8 hours ago, Apple said:

It won't be governments that will want vaccinations, rather the companies that provide the services - insurance, transport etc.

If that is the case, I am perfectly comfortable with that; with being denied travel (from airlines etc) on THAT specific basis. I am absolutely happy with having market forces asserting themselves and regulating this matter! Bring it on. You see, in the real world, companies (and people) act according to self-interest.

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1 hour ago, Nom de plume said:

5 day quarantine in the UK from Dec 15th for international arrivals.

Entry test plus test on Day 5.

Test negative, crack on.

Whats the Manx plan?

Maybe some enterprising journalist should ask them that direct question. We can't pretend to be Covid-free forever and nor should we aspire to. 

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10 hours ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

Just for curiosity, what do you mean with "I am blocking user"? You are not a moderator.

Users can block other users if they don't like them. This means they won't see the content of the blocked user anymore. You don't need to be an almighty internet god moderator or admin for this. 

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31 minutes ago, Filippo said:

Oh gosh, you are so deluded! You see the whole problem from the perspective of an islander retiree whose life (social, economic etc) is nearly all comprehended within the perimeter of the island; apart from a few holidays. You appear not being able to even consider that there might be a different point of view, as legitimate as yours. I am not going to get into the bragging game of academic and professional qualifications. Nonetheless, among my circle of middle-aged accomplished globetrotters, there is not one, not one of them, who has a substantially different opinion on the virus, this virus... the idiotic government response to this virus; the vexatious issue of mandatory vaccinations. They all had MMR on their children without hesitation. They all would set off a bomb (or fund someone to do it on their behalf; better!) rather than having a Covid vaccine pumped into their body. Because, they cannot live in a world in which the government has so much power on the individual. – We never had so much argument about all the other viruses and vaccines, prior to Covid; those are legitimate health issues. We are having so much argument about Covid, because Covid is politics.

Most leaders of the part of the world we regard as “free” (laugh…) have clearly stated that Covid vaccinations won’t be made mandatory. Neither by direct legislation, nor by indirect coercion through travel restrictions etc. I won’t quote the Trump administration, obviously, though you know where America stands (the US is too divided to agree on any coherent Covid policy); just three other meaningful examples.

The Swiss government has stated on a number of occasions that any Covid vaccine will be voluntary. Specifically, Swiss Health Minister Alain Berset has recently said: “Swiss law does not allow us to force someone to get vaccinated against their will; and there is no plan to change that legislation”.

You said that all but a tiny percentage of people agree with your point of view. Well, in Switzerland, only half of the population is eager to have the Covid vaccine; and 2/3 of Swiss are against making it mandatory. Read it by yourself here:

https://lenews.ch/2020/10/09/coronavirus-half-would-take-vaccine-in-switzerland

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/can-switzerland-convince-its-people-to-take-the-covid-19-vaccine--/46169830

You would find similar statistics about public opinion in the US; on the issue of Covid vaccines.

Boris Johnson, during his most recent – absurd – fortnight of Covid self-isolation (which happened about two weeks ago) made this specific statement in an online conference: "Let's be clear, there will be no compulsory vaccination. That's not the way we do things in this country.”

UK law forbids compulsory vaccinations. It explicitly states that the government powers to prevent or mitigate the spread of a pandemic infection cannot include mandatory requirements to undertake medical treatment and/or vaccination. The Coronavirus 2020 bill introduced in March 2020 restates this prohibition and extends it to Scotland and Northern Ireland.

And, I believe there is enough rationality within CoMin to understand well the vexatious issues behind any policy of mandatory vaccinations. At the time in which Pfizer came out with its phase III result, I heard David Ashford on Manx Radio state that “you can’t make vaccinations mandatory” and that “there is so much we don’t know yet [regarding those vaccines]”.

Historically, key areas of policy concern with CoMin have been the financial viability of the island as an independent entity; and preventing the island becoming a geriatric facility. As I had explained with my previous posting to this thread, there could be serious legal and financial implications with an outlier policy of mandatory vaccinations on this island. And any such a policy would trounce especially hard on young people’s rights and their likely point of view of the matter; considering that Covid is less dangerous than common seasonal flu for the under 40s. I think we can trust the legal and financial advisers of CoMin more than their medical counsel; and the sensitivity of MHKs’ antennae for protecting their pensions and those of their cronies; to do the right thing to protect those vested interests.

9 hours ago, Apple said:

It won't be governments that will want vaccinations, rather the companies that provide the services - insurance, transport etc. 

If that is the case, I am perfectly comfortable with that; with being denied travel (from airlines etc) on THAT specific basis. I am absolutely happy with having market forces asserting themselves and regulating this matter! Bring it on. You see, in the real world, companies (and people) act according to self-interest.

 

Here is a picture of me. When? Decades from now, in my nineties. Just after I said: “Screw the government and its f***ing vaccine!”

And by then, I truly hope the lot of you authoritarians to be all dead. I will die on my own terms.

 

1847233593_happyoldman.jpg.008441a6d6d7f69801cd9a63a1a1d2a7.jpg

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16 hours ago, Gladys said:
17 hours ago, spoiledbratoframsey said:

Forced vaccinations would be deeply corrosive of the fabric of society, in a way that some of you seem unable to understand. It would lead many young people to understand the true nature of their government and hence despise it.

I am not advocating forced vaccination, but for everyone to think seriously about their contribution to managing this virus.

However, I was reminded a few days ago about how your child would not be accepted into school without the MMR.  It wasn't forced, but your child couldn't start state education without it.  I am not sure what the position on that is now, but it was the case when my children were starting their education.

Gladys, you are one the more thoughtful and considerate posters on this forums. However, you too are looking at the problem from a political prism rather than from the perspective of its various realities.

You know that the Covid vaccines are very reactogenic; beyond anything that we have experience before with vaccines. Even if truly serious side effects turn out to be rare, rare enough for the vaccinations to be deemed safe enough proceed, those shots won’t be a walk in the park. As soon as they start to be administered on this island, there will be a tread on the topic of the side effects. Some vaccinologists think that many people will not turn out for the second shot.

Here is what I read on the last issue of The Science mag:

This summer, computational biologist Luke Hutchison volunteered for a trial of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine. But after the second injection, his arm swelled up to the size of a “goose egg,” Hutchison says. He can't be sure he got the vaccine and not a placebo, but within a few hours, Hutchison, who was healthy and 43, was beset by bone and muscle aches and a 38.9°C fever. “I started shaking. I had cold and hot rushes,” he says. “I was sitting by the phone all night long thinking: ‘Should I call 911?’”

The ethics of pushing the young into those shots, considering also the possibility of unknown long term effects on the immune system, are very questionable to say the least. The head of the UK vaccine task force declared – a few weeks ago, just before she was sacked – that it is "an adult only vaccine" for the over 50s. To younger people, it would have caused unwarranted "freak accidents". So she said. The UK government has systematically sided those whose persuasions don't fit into the politically correct narrative.

The UK government is acting in its own crude political interest, rather than been driven by considerations of people's welfare, of even health issues considerations. There was the science prior to Covid; and now we have the politically compliant science post-Covid. I am sorry, being that the current state of affairs, one has the right to protect oneself.

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2 hours ago, Nom de plume said:

Whats the Manx plan?

You've been told a hundred times.  It's 'wait and see what everyone does'.

The Parish Council is paid far too much to expect it to come up with a coherent plan - about anything!

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Much news over the weekend about how they will be using 'influencers' and well known entertainers, footballers etc to actually encourage people to take up the vaccine. Some even saying they will be televised doing so (good grief, I know!)

The main issue for me though is about the softly muted AAA approach (access all areas) to have personal data / records available to confirm vaccination. The Health Service may be called upon to allow such access across the government in some form or other to show vaccination and hence safety to travel etc. 

Computer terminals at the seaports and airports anyone?

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