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Spewing Juan


hissingsid
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21 hours ago, hissingsid said:

I hope he is one of the rejects at the next election along with Beecroft and the two useless ones from Garff and Robertshaw also the gull.   

Sorry, but a lot of people misunderstand JW. We need more like him , not get rid of him. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I would definitely vote for him every time.Look closer at the ones you can’t remember the name of or what they have ever done when looking to bin people off.. 

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12 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Sorry, but a lot of people misunderstand JW. We need more like him , not get rid of him. I don’t agree with everything he says, but I would definitely vote for him every time.Look closer at the ones you can’t remember the name of or what they have ever done when looking to bin people off.. 

It’s does not matter who you vote for. In the 40 years I’ve voted nothing has changed and the issues are they same as they were then. Unless you have some kind of party system nothing will change. Vested interests prevents that and we all know who they are.

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1 hour ago, Wilson said:

It’s does not matter who you vote for. In the 40 years I’ve voted nothing has changed and the issues are they same as they were then. Unless you have some kind of party system nothing will change. Vested interests prevents that and we all know who they are.

If you are worried by vested interests, then surely that could be worse in a party system as opposed to all being independent ?

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You don’t really need to think about it as an abstract idea. You can look at the places where a strong party system is the norm - plenty to choose from. In almost all vested interests usually have a stronger influence - for obvious reasons. The interest of ‘the party’ as an entity can easily overtake the interest of the majority populace, and be controlled by the use of economic influence. This is the case pretty much anywhere you look at such a format. If you don’t see it you’re probably politically aligned with the same vested interests or believe you are. 

There is only one way to challenge vested interests, but nobody wants to hear that drum.

:rolleyes:

 

Edited by James Hampton
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For the record I think Juan has done a reasonable job during the covid period. Government has got some things right and some things wrong. I think no matter what we may think of them as politicians they have done the best they could under circumstances I would guess none of them ever thought they’d face. Hindsight is always 2020 but it is not unreasonable to discuss any of it. Glossing over the entire situation isn’t going to help improve the outcome or our future response to anything similar.   

Edited by James Hampton
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But what has Juan done.....not a lot except moan and distract.   There are quite a few Ministers who are really doing a great job but Juan and the other critics have done sod all.   At times like this they should forget point scoring and grandstand electioneering ..small chance.   Their actions will be remembered come next year.

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3 hours ago, James Hampton said:

You don’t really need to think about it as an abstract idea. You can look at the places where a strong party system is the norm - plenty to choose from. In almost all vested interests usually have a stronger influence - for obvious reasons. The interest of ‘the party’ as an entity can easily overtake the interest of the majority populace, and be controlled by the use of economic influence. This is the case pretty much anywhere you look at such a format. If you don’t see it you’re probably politically aligned with the same vested interests or believe you are. 

There is only one way to challenge vested interests, but nobody wants to hear that drum.

:rolleyes:

 


Do elaborate

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42 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

But what has Juan done.....not a lot except moan and distract.   There are quite a few Ministers who are really doing a great job but Juan and the other critics have done sod all.   At times like this they should forget point scoring and grandstand electioneering ..small chance.   Their actions will be remembered come next year.

You are begiining to sound like an ex-MHK from Onchan

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10 hours ago, Donald Trumps said:


Do elaborate

How do vested interests achieve their ends? By applying pressure to those who have the power to influence decisions - directly or indirectly, with carrot or stick. The vested interests part of the problem cannot be removed or neutralized, it will always be there. The only solution to the problem is to change the way power is authorized. There is no other logical solution I can think of, and this solution works (at least a lot better than any other) where it is used. 

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1 minute ago, James Hampton said:

How do vested interests achieve their ends? By applying pressure to those who have the power to influence decisions - directly or indirectly, with carrot or stick. The vested interests part of the problem cannot be removed or neutralized, it will always be there. The only solution to the problem is to change the way power is authorized. There is no other logical solution I can think of, and this solution works (at least a lot better than any other) where it is used. 

Revolution?

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1 hour ago, code99 said:

Revolution?

Revolution in the form I expect most people would think of it doesn’t generally change the way power is authorized. You still have a very small group of people relying on violence (potential or actual) or apathy in order to wield power exclusively. That’s not much different to what we have now, you’re just removing what some would say is the illusion of choice. If nothing really changes for the population in either scenario - from  one revolution to another, or from one election to another - then the idea that choice is an illusion becomes more valid. Much was made of the fact that the 2016 election was the biggest turn over of faces in Tynwald in a generation. This was sure to bring big changes that people clearly wanted. Has that happened? 

The only way to change it is for people to change their relationship with the power they lend. Only the electorate can do it. It is not in the interest of the political class or the vested interests to change it. Apathy has been the biggest obstacle, but maybe that’s about to be one of the things changed by corona. Who knows.

 

 

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I assume he's talking about his direct democracy thing he raised around the time of the last election. Its a nice idea that normally wouldn't work because people simply don't care enough but, with the crisis and the new visibility of our leaders through the briefings and the amount of people tuning in maybe now is the time to raise it again.

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13 hours ago, James Hampton said:

How do vested interests achieve their ends? By applying pressure to those who have the power to influence decisions - directly or indirectly, with carrot or stick. The vested interests part of the problem cannot be removed or neutralized, it will always be there. The only solution to the problem is to change the way power is authorized. There is no other logical solution I can think of, and this solution works (at least a lot better than any other) where it is used. 

Power has to be sanctioned by the electorate - bring on the Kiribati Red Button!

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2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

I assume he's talking about his direct democracy thing he raised around the time of the last election. Its a nice idea that normally wouldn't work because people simply don't care enough but, with the crisis and the new visibility of our leaders through the briefings and the amount of people tuning in maybe now is the time to raise it again.

Too early perhaps for direct democracy, but deliberative would take us a long way forward

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