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Former chamber leader bins off 34 workers


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30 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Well over 3000 in the early 80s Roger, on official numbers alone, I remember it well. And Govt reserves down to less than £1M IIRC.

I sincerely hope it doesn’t go back to the 80s here as they were thoroughly depressing and hopeless times until they managed to kick the finance sector off. 

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Jesus, how utterly miserable can someone be? How can you see things so badly? Loads of people are back at work, things are moving forwards, everything is going alright unless you own a hotel I guess.

It is a sorry story, because the aviation/aerospace sector is strategic for the island. But as much as I disagree with the whole lockdown policy etc; those companies are mainly affected by events that

This is why we really do have to look very seriously  at opening business up again. It would be truly awful if the most pernicious effect was the intended cure.  The virus is still going to be there,

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

I was thinking more of self-employed or similar.  Didn't someone on here say they had applied for the scheme and told they would be better off on JSA because of rent?

That would be me. I was £24 per week 'better' off on JSA than I would have been on MERA, which I found an astonishing situation. 

Edit - It even says so on here https://www.gov.im/categories/benefits-and-financial-support/manx-earnings-replacement-allowance/

 

Edited by TheTeapot
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This is why we really do have to look very seriously  at opening business up again. It would be truly awful if the most pernicious effect was the intended cure.  The virus is still going to be there, along with many other causes of death.  Lets not sentence everyone to a long and lingering death by other means. 

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1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Well over 3000 in the early 80s Roger, on official numbers alone, I remember it well. And Govt reserves down to less than £1M IIRC.

So do I, and the population was less.  I don't suppose many do remember the 80s both here and in the UK; awful times.  But, we seem to be set on a course based on hysteria and an unwillingness to accept that life carries risk, because "they" should remove as much risk as possible.  

I tried to have a conversation about it with my son and his trenchant view is that life is worth more than the economy.  I tried to point out that without a working economy, life is going to be very hard, beyond anyone's comprehension, and that will result in many people dying through non-availability of income and health services, not to mention the mental impact.

It is staggering that very few are actually picking this up.  There is a real danger, in my view, that when the handling is scrutinised, the biggest failure will not be preventing deaths from covid, but the lives lost through failing to preserve an economy that supports everyone.

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1 hour ago, Gladys said:

So do I, and the population was less.  I don't suppose many do remember the 80s both here and in the UK; awful times.  But, we seem to be set on a course based on hysteria and an unwillingness to accept that life carries risk, because "they" should remove as much risk as possible.  

I tried to have a conversation about it with my son and his trenchant view is that life is worth more than the economy.  I tried to point out that without a working economy, life is going to be very hard, beyond anyone's comprehension, and that will result in many people dying through non-availability of income and health services, not to mention the mental impact.

It is staggering that very few are actually picking this up.  There is a real danger, in my view, that when the handling is scrutinised, the biggest failure will not be preventing deaths from covid, but the lives lost through failing to preserve an economy that supports everyone.

It’s not which risk trumps which but I do find it odd how many younger people have given up and are happy to let the state and so-called experts dictate what the future of their life will be. Even if that’s sat on their bum for the next 5 years on benefits in order to keep “safe” (from something that is highly unlikely to kill them) while everything rots around them. If you recall the late 80s things only started to get better when people took control and decided that it was better taking some risk in their personal lives than being powerlessly stuck on the dole queue or in some dead end job assigned to them by their social status. If we’re not careful that’s what it will all be back to. People don’t seem to want control their own lives. They’ve given up paralyzed by fear and are happy to have their lives determined and controlled for them (even to the extent they will accept lost liberty, lost jobs, lost homes) just so they can’t feel superficially safe because government has told them that they should be very afraid. 

Edited by Southfork
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Yes, but what is vital is that there is economic activity to pay for people on benefits.  When the pot is empty, it is empty. 

There won’t be. Neither will there be money to pay for the NHS or for all the hoards of local authority and government workers. We’ll be back to the 3 day week and rotting rubbish in the streets as there will be no money to pay anyone with. All this furlough money is misleading. It has an end date. When that end date happens it won’t be pretty. 

Edited by Southfork
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No, there won't be money for the NHS, or any other public service which everyone takes for granted.  

The only grain of comfort is that the money hasn't  disappeared, it will be a case of unlocking it. 

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9 minutes ago, Southfork said:

There won’t be. Neither will there be money to pay for the NHS or for all the hoards of local authority and government workers. We’ll be back to the 3 day week and rotting rubbish in the streets as there will be no money to pay anyone with. All this furlough money is misleading. It has an end date. When that end date happens it won’t be pretty. 

Jesus, how utterly miserable can someone be? How can you see things so badly? Loads of people are back at work, things are moving forwards, everything is going alright unless you own a hotel I guess. You're going to do yourself some damage if you don't cheer up a bit.

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1 minute ago, hissingsid said:

Gladys I think your son is right health should always come before wealth and when we stop thinking this way society is finished.

I agree on a micro level, of course, but if the overall effect is to damage economic activity to the extent we can no longer afford the basic services that we now take for granted  then health will take a back seat. 

BTW, I am not talking about wealth but economic activity, two very different things. 

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1 minute ago, Gladys said:

No, there won't be money for the NHS, or any other public service which everyone takes for granted.  

The only grain of comfort is that the money hasn't  disappeared, it will be a case of unlocking it. 

The IOM will never unlock it. It’s always had a problem with de regulation and free market economics. It can’t just print money either like the UK to buy itself out of its problems.

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2 minutes ago, Southfork said:

The IOM will never unlock it. It’s always had a problem with de regulation and free market economics. It can’t just print money either like the UK to buy itself out of its problems.

The IOM is part of the British economy. And whilst the old Sterling Zone hasn't officially existed since the 70s - we are still basically a part of it.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Jesus, how utterly miserable can someone be? How can you see things so badly? Loads of people are back at work, things are moving forwards, everything is going alright unless you own a hotel I guess. You're going to do yourself some damage if you don't cheer up a bit.

Why do you think Jersey has borrowed £500M, why do you think we are cleared to borrow £250M? Because it’s all going to bounce back in a few weeks? Every prediction in this crises has been wrong. The estimated death toll was absolute bullshit. The reality has been far from that projected by “experts”. The same applies to the economic damage. It’s been underplayed as much at the deaths have been over played. There are 7,000,000 people in the UK this week whose sole source of income will be government furlough money. The cure is becoming much worse than the actual disease. 

Edited by Southfork
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7 minutes ago, Southfork said:

The IOM will never unlock it. It’s always had a problem with de regulation and free market economics. It can’t just print money either like the UK to buy itself out of its problems.

No, I think you misunderstand my somewhat basic grasp of economics.  The value doesn't disappear, as was proved in 2008.  Someone "had the money", what governments have been doing since 2008 is making sure that money kept moving to optimise their ability to get a share through taxes, hence the various international tax initiatives that followed. 

To add: your post above is exactly it. 

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