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Black Lives Matter

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2 minutes ago, quilp said:

Do you think "white privilege" is a racist term? 

No, because it's not anti- anyone. It's a description of the status quo.

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6 minutes ago, quilp said:

How can this issue be addressed then? Come on, where does society start? With whom lies the blame..? We can discuss the problem till dawn but what about the solution? 

Christ quilp, it's quarter to 12!

A good start might be to roll back policing initiatives that unfairly target poorer (and typically less-white) areas. That said, I'm probably a police abolitionist rather than reformist.

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I don’t feel guilty, I treat everyone the same Prince or pauper, black, yellow, brown or white we are all equal in my eyes I do not need educating by some pretentious arrogant man who thinks the world owes him, he wants to get a life and learn how to put his point over in a less condescending way.

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3 minutes ago, quilp said:

Do you think "white privilege" is a racist term? 

It is. It casts an entire race in a pejorative light. Unfortunately, some of them are taken in by it too. I do wonder if the rabble-rousers might have bitten off more than they can chew though. It needs very careful handling or it will escalate further. I don't think police forces cosying up to them or turning a blind eye to their criminality is a good look or a wise policy.

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There's "white privilege" as a concept. Just like [any other home team] privilege, it's just a small but helpful advantage in life.

Much like being a Liverpool FC supporter if you live beside Anfield. Life is just better compared to being an Everton supporter. 

But then there's accusing a white man (as a non-white person) of having "white privilege". That's guilt loading (it's also avoiding personal responsibility).

HOWEVER (to side with HeliX somewhat) I freely admit that due to their forefathers being taken against their will to the USA, etc, African Americans can never have the home team advantage. I have no solution for that.

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4 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Christ quilp, it's quarter to 12!

A good start might be to roll back policing initiatives that unfairly target poorer (and typically less-white) areas. That said, I'm probably a police abolitionist rather than reformist.

A police abolitionist? Fantastic. What then?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, woolley said:

A police abolitionist? Fantastic. What then?

A more empowered social services for most of it. A lot of police calls are social issues anyway, drug use, mental health, etc. Camden in New Jersey has partially taken this approach, replacing a lot of regular police with "community police". It seems to have reduced crime rates quite impressively.

EDIT: I should point out I'm pretty much talking solely about the US here. I think the UK police force is probably still "OK" enough to be reformed rather than abolished.

Edited by HeliX

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7 minutes ago, HeliX said:

A good start might be to roll back policing initiatives that unfairly target poorer (and typically less-white) areas.

Is this the reality? Are the police really targeting "less-white" areas or just those areas of rampant, unfettered criminal activity?

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1 minute ago, quilp said:

Is this the reality? Are the police really targeting "less-white" areas or just those areas of rampant, unfettered criminal activity?

"Broken windows" policing targets less affluent areas. On the whole, less-white areas are less affluent, for a variety of reasons. You don't have to look back very far to see what set this situation up, people refusing to sell/rent property to black people in the late 60s etc. 

I'm assuming I don't need to prove the link between poverty and low-level crime (which is the kind broken windows policing focuses on).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HeliX said:

I don't disagree. It's a complicated issue, and unfortunately a lot of people associate it with the term "privilege" which traditionally meant that your parents were loaded.

Aye, that can be sorted out.

Looks like it will be.

Edited by gettafa

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1 hour ago, HeliX said:

It's worth bearing in mind that a lot of people in this thread have only really analysed the term "white privilege" since Stu's call, which I imagine would give you a not particularly representative view. In more formal contexts (studies, debates, etc) it's certainly not used as a guilt mechanism. Just a way to frame societal issues.

So a radio presenter more used to chatting to callers about speed limits on the mountain or what car they had as a teenager going to the  Castletown 370 disco and all that.

A new caller comes on stacked with issues, Stu Peters use the above phrase in a way that perhaps doesn't sit well with intellectuals and aficionados, with the result that he could lose his livelihood.

It's not right.

 

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1 minute ago, gettafa said:

So a radio presenter more used to chatting to callers about speed limits on the mountain or what car they had as a teenager going to the  Castletown 370 disco and all that.

A new caller comes on stacked with issues, Stu Peters use the above phrase in a way that perhaps doesn't sit well with intellectuals and aficionados, with the result that he could lose his livelihood.

It's not right.

 

As mentioned, I think a better outcome would be a proper discussion on MR with Stu & perhaps Jordan, and others. Not that I think it'll happen.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, HeliX said:

As mentioned, I think a better outcome would be a proper discussion on MR with Stu & perhaps Jordan, and others. Not that I think it'll happen.

Yes, it should happen. Or something like it. Bear in mind there are nearly 5,000 names on change.org, some baying for his head on a stick (if you will excuse me the metaphor)

Let's wait and see what happens.

Edited by gettafa
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9 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Just thought I'd share this again, in case you missed it. Its a half hour, and has some swearing, but just watch it OK?

 

I did watch it and it is terrifying the extent of militarization of the US police, the lack of real accountability and oversight,  and the entrenched police culture.  The current discussion on standing down (I think that is the phrase)  the police in some US states  is one that needs to happen and happen quick.  

The first contention that the US police have basically become militarised social workers is one that really needs action - pulling back on social workers but expecting the police to deal with the same problems, with arms and then when the problems aren't fixed, hire more militarised police. The Dallas police officer was particularly eloquent. 

That is a real purpose for demonstrating, a specific set of issues and aspects up for debate .  100% behind that, but I am still not convinced for the reasons I have given before that BLM  and more specifically BLM IOM is right at this time and in this place.

A few years ago, I met an American woman visiting the island in a work connected context.  The conversation turned to the problem of the native American population in her state.  The fact that they had been given reservations (I am sure that is how she referred to them, not sure if that is officially what they are still called) but had turned them into a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah full of casinos with very high unemployment, alcohol abuse, crime and social depravity, yet were still calling for rights.  What else did they expect? After all, and these were her exact words; "they are a conquered nation".  

She was not an uneducated redneck, white trash, she was highly intelligent, quite young and a high achiever ( in a female trailblazer kind of way that I won't specify).  In every other way she was an admirable person, but she had that view. 

Does the BLM movement sufficiently cover the native American issue or other oppressed minorities in the wider perception?  It doesn't.  Does the BLM IOM reflect the minority issues here?  In my view, it does not. 

For the reasons I have explained elsewhere, I am not convinced that responding to BLM by saying all lives matter is wrong or  more fundamentally, racist.  To use the trite analogy of a house on fire, I would say there are several houses on fire, why is your house fire more important than the others blazing away off the main road of international publicity, or the little cottage quietly smoldering in the distant village? 

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