Jump to content

Black Lives Matter


2112
 Share

Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, 2bees said:

I’m all for anti-racism and support the demonstrators whole heartedly but can’t they just take the names off the statues of bad people this making them anonymous. To a celebrate the artist would be far better than to pull them down and chuck them in the sea or whatever. I see statues around the place in Bulgaria, I have no idea who they’re of and I don’t really care because Im looking at the sculpture not the ego. 

I suspect your Bulgarian wanderings haven't led to you encountering many gentlemen with big moustaches called Joseph though.  And not many of those bewailing the toppling of Colston were complaining when Saddam's statues came down.  (Aesthetically I'm not sure Colston's is much better, though the base is nice)

There had actually been quite a prolonged campaign in Bristol to get the inscription changed to reflect reality, but it had been blocked, so there was a lot of frustration about the subject.  Kate Williams has an interesting twitter stream with the details of the wordings that were proposed.

But the most interesting fact about the statue that hardly anyone seems to mention is that it was not really that great an historic thing in any case.  Rather than dating from Colston's time in the 18th Century, it was only erected in 1895, 174 years after he died.  It's actually from nearer our time than his.  In this it's like a lot of the Confederate monuments in the US which were put up not just after the Civil War, but in the 1920s and 30s - not in remembrance of those recently dead but to reinforce the racial segregation of the times. 

What the intention of the Colston statue was I don't know, but it's interesting that the people of Bristol wouldn't contribute enough to a public subscription to pay for it.  It may have been because they were revolted by the slavery link but I suspect they thought that if rich people wanted to erect statues to their heroes they could pay for it themselves.  Certainly it doesn't show any great love for Colston, even when the statue went up.

Meanwhile a compromise solution has been put forward by another eminent Bristolian.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Bulgarian statues with huge moustaches are ex Bulgarian empire Czars, C19 Freedom fighters, hero’s of the Balkan wars, freedom fighters during WW2.  They aren’t soviet.
 

Most of the sculptures, art work, statues of the communist era were removed and many  now sit in the Sofia based museum of Socialist Art. Statues in a garden, posters and painting and sculpture in the galleries.

There are one or two still left. The monumental one celebrating liberation by the red army, near Eagles Bridge, but that’s more to do with not wanting to offend Russia and stir up the Bulgarian extreme right Plus it’s too big to move without dynamite.

But even that isn’t popular. It’s subject to regular graffiti. One of the latest and most colourful here.

E8B63F58-3AE0-44B7-A4CD-3E44143ECFD6.jpeg

  • Like 4
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This one

There’s a huge monument outside of Yambol, again I have no idea what it’s for but I’m glad it’s there because it looks ace :) 

I don’t like the crap graffiti but the addition of colour brings life to it and is a bloody good protest - enhancement through change could be another way of neutralising inappropriate monuments. Love it.

Edited by 2bees
To add a link
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, 2bees said:

This one

There’s a huge monument outside of Yambol, again I have no idea what it’s for but I’m glad it’s there because it looks ace :) 

I don’t like the crap graffiti but the addition of colour brings life to it and is a bloody good protest - enhancement through change could be another way of neutralising inappropriate monuments. Love it.

There are many like that. Huge, concrete, with figures. But the don’t portray identifiable communist “heros” rather celebrate human achievement. They’ve stayed because they’re so huge, and they don’t portray communist oppressors. 
 

https://staravarosblog.blogspot.com/p/blog-page_29.html

surprisingly it was only erected in 1987. Celebrates founding of 1st empire in 687 and of victory over Ottomans in 1877

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone know if the POC IOM group has an online presence? Thought I'd have a look to see who is involved. I can find plenty of announcements in the media of its establishment and that it resides on Twitter, but when I search POC IOM on Twitter I get PWC, the accountants! Par for the course in the IOM, I suppose. Grateful for a link.

Edited by woolley
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, woolley said:

Does anyone know it the POC IOM group has an online presence? Thought I'd have a look to see who is involved. I can find plenty of announcements in the media of its establishment and that it resides on Twitter, but when I search POC IOM on Twitter I get PWC, the accountants! Par for the course in the IOM, I suppose. Grateful for a link.

I can't find it either Woolley. I've asked one of the very few people I know who was at the protest so if he gives me an answer I'll let you know.

Edit - he doesn't know either.

Edited by TheTeapot
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, woolley said:

I think it's pretty narrow minded to attack statues and monuments.  They are all tokens of times past that remind us of where we came from. Change for the future is here and now.

narrow minded is one way of putting it. Pure vandalism would be a more apt description. You can't rewrite history which is what these people are trying to do

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

narrow minded is one way of putting it. Pure vandalism would be a more apt description. You can't rewrite history which is what these people are trying to do

It literally isn't rewriting history.  It's removing statues of people who with the benefit of hindsight, don't deserve status.

I mean most people learn history from books, documentaries and museums etc.  You don't learn history from a statue.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Chef Raekwon said:

It literally isn't rewriting history.  It's removing statues of people who with the benefit of hindsight, don't deserve status.

I mean most people learn history from books, documentaries and museums etc.  You don't learn history from a statue.

Rightly or wrongly though it is still part of history. Museums also may contain portraits, statues of those may not have deserved such status. Where does it stop. You could look at these statues as a way of reminding you how evil these people may have been.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

I can't find it either Woolley. I've asked one of the very few people I know who was at the protest so if he gives me an answer I'll let you know.

Edit - he doesn't know either.

Thanks for trying, Teapot. You have a cuppa now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Neil Down said:

Rightly or wrongly though it is still part of history. Museums also may contain portraits, statues of those may not have deserved such status. Where does it stop. You could look at these statues as a way of reminding you how evil these people may have been.

Pull the grand buildings down in all of the cities that were built on the backs of exploitation of foreigners. Not much left. Work out all of the riches that accrued to the country in the same way, plus interest. Send it out to the starving around the globe. As you say. Where does it stop?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, woolley said:

I think it's pretty narrow minded to attack statues and monuments.  They are all tokens of times past that remind us of where we came from. Change for the future is here and now.

If we didn't remove statues from time to time we wouldn't be able to move for them after a few thousand years.

We're always rewriting history, anyhow, as historian's research turns up new information, as our values change. It's inevitable and has been going on as long as people have studied the past. The decision to put up Colston's statue 175 years after his death is just as much a rewriting of history as removing it 125 years later.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Declan said:

If we didn't remove statues from time to time we wouldn't be able to move for them after a few thousand years.

We're always rewriting history, anyhow, as historian's research turns up new information, as our values change. It's inevitable and has been going on as long as people have studied the past. The decision to put up Colston's statue 175 years after his death is just as much a rewriting of history as removing it 125 years later.

Who is 'we'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...