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Black Lives Matter

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10 minutes ago, Gladys said:

I wonder what a "Trained Marxist" as opposed to a follower or student of Marxism is?

Its just part of the standard shite that falls out of Rudy's gob. Anyone who uses him to reinforce their point is a nutter.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Its just part of the standard shite that falls out of Rudy's gob. Anyone who uses him to reinforce their point is a nutter.

He was quoting her. She literally called herself a trained Marxist.

“We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk."

You can watch and hear her say it right here:

 

Edited by FDR
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1 hour ago, Augustus said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/03/cancellation-activism-persuasion-cancel-culture-twitter

This woman normally spouts bollocks, but she's on the right track here.

Indeed.

She makes some valid points.  There is definitely a race to the bottom occurring where no one is allowed their own thoughts and opinions.

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11 hours ago, Gladys said:

No.  I don't  feel shame either, although it is a shameful part of our history.  We all think if we were alive at the time that we would be right behind Wilberforce, but would we, really?  We can only judge past events through our current eyes and understanding.  Who knows exactly what we would have made of it, what our circumstances, knowledge and attitudes would be.  Perhaps we couldn't read, write, or did not have the time to think of very much beyond  working to feed our families. 

The workers in the cotton mills may have had no knowledge of how the raw material was produced, and even if they did would they really think a slave's lot was worse than their own? They may have been very grateful for the cotton coming in as the workhouse was an even worse fate.  They may have just scraped together enough money to bury the latest child to have died before reaching the age of three, and so on. 

There are very many layers to this particular onion.  That is not to downplay how terrible slavery was, but to put a context on it. 

Absolutely. It is impossible to look at the past through the prism of present "values". We haven't lived long enough to be aware of how the contemporary population viewed slavery,  but there have been plenty of other value inversions to guide us. When I was a kid, if you were a murderer you were put to death by the state. Homosexuality was disgusting and criminal. If you did wrong according to the law you would be banged up and nobody would try to understand or rehabilitate you. Disruptive, poorly behaved children in public were the rare exception,  and they were not allowed to mar the enjoyment of venues by those around them. Mixed race relationships were frowned upon by both sides and society in general. Not so long before that, the Empire was proudly taught in schools as a force for good and the spread of British influence as our gift to the world. In the few decades since those times all of these cherished values and beliefs have been turned to face in the opposite direction. What was good and wholesome then is now shameful  and bigoted. What was bad or criminal then is enlightened and desirable now. The only common denominator is the learning and conditioning of the time. Like it or not, this is how the majority of people, and therefore society, arrive at a consensus. Is it any wonder that some who were brought up with different values will demur and challenge this week's wisdom?

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2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

Ey ey ey. Calm down lad

Lucky that Mr Maguire is no longer a civil servant at the Treasury. Otherwise Stu could ring his employer and ask whether the use of the word "paki" is official government policy and perhaps start a campaign to get him fired...:whistling:

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3 minutes ago, piebaps said:

Lucky that Mr Maguire is no longer a civil servant at the Treasury. Otherwise Stu could ring his employer and ask whether the use of the word "paki" is official government policy and perhaps start a campaign to get him fired...:whistling:

You are joking, he was a civil servant? 

Still can't find the rationale as to why someone who had part of their ear bitten off should end up with community service and costs awarded against them. 

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1 minute ago, Gladys said:

You are joking, he was a civil servant? 

Still can't find the rationale as to why someone who had part of their ear bitten off should end up with community service and costs awarded against them. 

I wondered that myself, which made me think that there was more to the incident than was reported?

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39 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I wondered that myself, which made me think that there was more to the incident than was reported?

The way I read it was 

- somebody racially abuses him

- he tries to fight them

- comes off worse

- cops appear

- other guy runs off

- Jordan is left nursing his wounds and facing an affray charge. 

 

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If he was injured, then surely the police should investigate for a possible assault charge?  Unless he wouldn't give them the information needed to apprehend the suspect.  I am sure a lawyer would put me right, but if he came off worse then why is he found guilty of affray?  From memory, didn't the deemster say something like he should have walked away? 

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18 minutes ago, Gladys said:

If he was injured, then surely the police should investigate for a possible assault charge?  Unless he wouldn't give them the information needed to apprehend the suspect.  I am sure a lawyer would put me right, but if he came off worse then why is he found guilty of affray?  From memory, didn't the deemster say something like he should have walked away? 

That's correct, easy to say but not always easy to do. They may have followed him and a more serious assault may have taken place. At least there were cameras in the kebab shop. 

John would know better but I wondered if the law prosecutes all participants in an affray, and there being only one person brought to court due to the others not being identified, was he just unlucky or was he being picked on by the police and Deemster? 

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Who knows?  It does strike me as odd and that is not necessarily that he was in the wrong, but he certainly seemed to come off worse. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gladys said:

If he was injured, then surely the police should investigate for a possible assault charge?  Unless he wouldn't give them the information needed to apprehend the suspect.  I am sure a lawyer would put me right, but if he came off worse then why is he found guilty of affray?  From memory, didn't the deemster say something like he should have walked away? 

I'll put the full report up again:

Quote

Court hears of racially charged incident

A 24-year-old Douglas man has been ordered to carry out 80 hours of community service, after being involved in a fight at a takeaway in the town.

At a previous court appearance Jordan Maguire, of Anagh Coar Road, had admitted affray.

The court heard he got involved in the confrontation after he was racially abused by a man in Flaming Great on Bucks Road.

The fight happened both inside and outside the kebab shop, with Maguire at one point being attacked with a plank of wood.

His left ear was bitten in the incident, also.

Deputy High Bailiff Jayne Hughes told Maguire despite the racial abuse, he should still have walked away and not got involved.

In addition to the community service, she ordered him to pay £125 costs.

It's possible that the assailant(s) were dealt with separately and later at a higher court which would have the power to impose heavier sentences such as long terms of imprisonment, but I seem to remember we couldn't find any evidence of it at the time.  That could well be due to the patchy reporting of court cases by the media.

Edited by Roger Mexico
Remove unused link to footnote
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