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Mr Newbie

Chief Constable tries selective hearing

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12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I was quite critical On Here about the appointment for the same reason, that someone who had spent his entire career in the local police would be too chummy with the right people and not look outside to see what could be learned.  I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how he has done and I get the impression that more would have been done in certain areas (such as drugs) if there had been firmed political backing.  To some extent his been an improvement on some of his predecessors who mainly spouted that year's catchphrases and negated their useful outsider status by getting into bed with the local Establishment too quickly.

There is still the problem that too much training is still localised and low standards can get excused as a sort of patriotic duty.  But that predates Roberts by some way and isn't exclusive to the police either.

The Chief Constable's enrolment speech by the First Deemster was putting him in his place. Either that or they were just too pally in the first place. Either way The Establishment wins (hey, piebaps - look it up)

Doyle would not have made the same 'jokes/jibes' to a new to the Island Chief Constable and would have shown due respect.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

He's a strange one Mr Flint. He does try to encourage a bit of debate for the future which can only be a good thing, and he's normally pretty polite despite occasional provocation. He can be pretty negative on here and on twitter, but then with our government there is often something to be negative about. He's wrong about some things and right about others, bit like most people really. Scotty is being a bit of a dick, we want to be encouraging people to post here, try not to be too on one with the attacks and people might.

One thing about Mr Flint that does annoy me though was the Charlie Brown incident. He obviously felt it was much worse than it was which is ok, but the grovelling apology forced out of CB on threats of legal action said a lot more to me about Mr Flint than CB. Sat very uncomfortably in my view.

Really, CB was a bellend who revelled in provoking people. I bit too quickly too many times which was why I ended up blocking the turd.

 

Edited by Neil Down
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1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

One thing about Mr Flint that does annoy me though was the Charlie Brown incident. He obviously felt it was much worse than it was which is ok, but the grovelling apology forced out of CB on threats of legal action said a lot more to me about Mr Flint than CB. Sat very uncomfortably in my view.

Are you channeling Peppermint Patty? 

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11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Why don’t you just let it go Derek. ? You left the force, but can’t move on. Most of your posts on MF are negative comments about our Police force. Why not just admit that it is all in the past. You constantly bleat about the CC, seemingly because he is local.

I bet they really miss you.

I remain interested in policing across the British Isles. I’ll continue to defend our cops with my dying breath, but where they can do better, just like any other public service, I’ll call that into question. Any criticism of Gary is more to do with the fact the Constabulary has had no effective outside influence in its development since the mid 2000’s. That isn’t healthy for any organisation. It hasn’t even had an HMIC inspection in nigh on 20 years. Some of this lies at the door of the DHA and their own sophistication.

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11 hours ago, Scotty said:

Yeah, ok :(

Just like his wanting to be part of the UK instead of being our own independent (ish) state and governing ourselves.

Like dissing smarter people than him in the force

Like thinking he was forced out because like most people his age, his hips were knackered.
Like thinking nobody was capable of putting out media info.

Yeah, I’ll go with him wanting the best for the Manx people. Not.

Well, I wish I’d had you as a consultant rather than my own! I might have still been there! 

As far as part of the UK goes - the Island needs to look at its long term sustainability. Independence isn’t great if we are all on spuds and herring. Every option needs to be on the table for the good of our people.

as for smarter people, they got the plaudits they deserved from me, both in ranks above and below. And there were a good few of them. There were also some utter balloons who did a lot of damage.

10 hours ago, Scotty said:

I am no copper. I respect the Police Force we have and can’t understand the attacks by DF. He did well and was paid well. He has a great pension, yet still has to have a go at the CC every chance he gets. I can recall his taking up of a job at Nobles, while on the big bucks pension. It may not have been what he thought, but he accepted it for a while. Two bites of the cherry ?. Goose that laid the golden egg springs to mind.

As previously noted, the Nobles job seemed superfluous. Ethically I can’t take the Queen’s shilling if I don’t believe it offers value. It might have been about 18 months too early in fruition, but speaking to people recently, excessive management still seems to be an issue. 

9 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I was quite critical On Here about the appointment for the same reason, that someone who had spent his entire career in the local police would be too chummy with the right people and not look outside to see what could be learned.  I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how he has done and I get the impression that more would have been done in certain areas (such as drugs) if there had been firmed political backing.  To some extent his been an improvement on some of his predecessors who mainly spouted that year's catchphrases and negated their useful outsider status by getting into bed with the local Establishment too quickly.

There is still the problem that too much training is still localised and low standards can get excused as a sort of patriotic duty.  But that predates Roberts by some way and isn't exclusive to the police either.

Gary has done a lot of good things but there are other areas where things really haven’t planned out. Some of that is to do with politics, But it is what it is.

Training has always been a worry. I’m a highly qualified practitioner, but it was nigh on impossible to get buy in from the command level at many points in history, to provide the very best training available. Much of that was to do with budget. I could have depleted the annual provision on the needs for roads policing alone. Some areas which don’t waver from National Standards are armed policing, defensive training, driver training, collision investigation and to a degree detective training. And there have been big improvements though I believe budgets are still sorely lacking.

Why are National Standards important? Because when things go awry those are the ones you’ll be judged by! One area where there does need to be continued improvements is in the leadership and management arenas, but that isn’t exclusive to IOMC. It would make better bosses in the long run. I had next to no formal development across the ranks I held, which I know is contributory to some of my struggles at various points.

Coppering isn’t a complex business, but it is increasingly technical. We need to make sure bobbies are well trained to meet those challenges.

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13 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

I remain interested in policing across the British Isles. I’ll continue to defend our cops with my dying breath, but where they can do better, just like any other public service, I’ll call that into question. Any criticism of Gary is more to do with the fact the Constabulary has had no effective outside influence in its development since the mid 2000’s. That isn’t healthy for any organisation. It hasn’t even had an HMIC inspection in nigh on 20 years. Some of this lies at the door of the DHA and their own sophistication.

It is quite staggering that the professional body set up to oversee the quality of policing of the 43 forces in the United Kingdom has not been invited to the Isle of Man for twenty years!
That is a huge amount of time given forces usually have five year development plans that no oversight or review has been undertaken.

Given the force does the majority of its own training then not to have any external evaluation seems quite incredible.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Whatnonsence said:

It is quite staggering that the professional body set up to oversee the quality of policing of the 43 forces in the United Kingdom has not been invited to the Isle of Man for twenty years!
That is a huge amount of time given forces usually have five year development plans that no oversight or review has been undertaken.

Given the force does the majority of its own training then not to have any external evaluation seems quite incredible.

 

 

Armed policing training, after a lot of hard graft, is I understand now licensed. It was conducted to the appropriate standard for many years and this was the final bit that was needed. Really pleased it is now in place. Driver training has been verified and produces good standards. There are some areas however where I personally believe the force runs an unacceptable risk profile in terms of the comparative UK provision. In the event of an adverse incident, that will be the prescribed standard. It could be a very uncomfortable ride. 

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23 hours ago, Neil Down said:

Really, CB was a bellend who revelled in provoking people. 

Are you related at all? 

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10 hours ago, Whatnonsence said:

It is quite staggering that the professional body set up to oversee the quality of policing of the 43 forces in the United Kingdom has not been invited to the Isle of Man for twenty years!
That is a huge amount of time given forces usually have five year development plans that no oversight or review has been undertaken.

Given the force does the majority of its own training then not to have any external evaluation seems quite incredible.

 

 

As well as no ‘outside’ scrutinisation, the major other failing is lack of independent investigations into any complaints. Want to complain about a senior officer? No problem- the Police will just appoint the fella or woman from the office next door up at Police HQ to look into your allegation. Probably over a cuppa and biscuits and a chat and joke about what you’re alleging, whilst they concoct an appropriate story or alibi. 
This was of course raised a few years ago now, and recommendations made by some report. But obviously ignored. It’s far better to keep everything ‘in house’ you see- that way all officers are just great and all complaints are superfluous and unfounded. 

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3 minutes ago, manxst said:

As well as no ‘outside’ scrutinisation, the major other failing is lack of independent investigations into any complaints. Want to complain about a senior officer? No problem- the Police will just appoint the fella or woman from the office next door up at Police HQ to look into your allegation. Probably over a cuppa and biscuits and a chat and joke about what you’re alleging, whilst they concoct an appropriate story or alibi. 
This was of course raised a few years ago now, and recommendations made by some report. But obviously ignored. It’s far better to keep everything ‘in house’ you see- that way all officers are just great and all complaints are superfluous and unfounded. 

Complaints against the Police was scrutinised by a Tynwald  Committee in 2006 and found not fit for purpose a requirement for Independent oversight was recommended. It was a Police Inspector from Manchester that asked for the enquiry.
The recommendations were never implemented.

Obviously Home Affairs are not happy about scrutiny into complaints or in the running of the Constabulary.

 

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11 hours ago, Mr Newbie said:

Are you related at all? 

Not as closely as you and HeliX

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1 hour ago, Mr Newbie said:

That is quite shocking particularly offences of dishonesty. You wouldn't have got in back in the day but standards in all aspects including initial training and fitness seem to be down the toilet.

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3 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said:

That is quite shocking particularly offences of dishonesty. You wouldn't have got in back in the day but standards in all aspects including initial training and fitness seem to be down the toilet.

Four with burglary and theft convictions is frankly amazing. 

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It works out at something like 0.2% of the workforce. Keep it in context.

I would wager that the vast majority of those very small number of offences  were committed as juveniles.

Over here, I can’t recall anyone being appointed wth more than minor traffic offences. Anyone convicted whilst serving (drink drive, assault, theft for example) had their fate decided very much on the circumstances of the offence and the prevailing attitudes of the force at the time.

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