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Government seeks £12m for new Care Home


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1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Not enough private homes are being built, or to the spec of what is needed. 

As well as older persons, those needing nursing care, EMI, there are people stuck in Manannan Court, bed blocking, who need 24/7 supervision. People of all ages. Then there are lots of homeless, many with personality disorders. Our entire stock needs sorting out.

Perhaps Albert Terrace can be adapted. But this is necessary.

private, or PFI, doesn’t work long term, except for a few excellent operators. Many close for financial reasons or after adverse event or a poor inspection.

What I meant was the provision of care homes.  Why your government doesn't private such things and leave it to the private sector makes no sense to me.  Same with transport, and things that the private sector can deliver so much better and at lower cost leaving you hopelessly bloated government to govern and not act as landlord, transport provider, utility provider etc. It just makes no sense.  Privatisation has worked spectacularly well over here with very few problems.

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Au contraire, privatisation has been a disaster. Wages and care levels down. Profits extracted for owners and providers of finance.  The only way most private operators make money is hidden gover

It’s unlikely to be beneficial to anyone, anywhere. Not even bigoted bores in Norfolk

just purchase abbots wood and refit it.

Am pretty sure Salisbury Street had some provision maybe 5 rooms for

Dementia cases as will the proposed new one but both are predominately Care Homes not Nursing Homes like Elder Grange and Springfield Grange but my whole

argument concerns the extremely and needless inflated costs. We simply

cannot afford this sort of extravagance.

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58 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

The government owned the Salisbury Site - it was a bus depot - and JCK, the main contractors made a string of massive fuck ups in building it. Really it should have cost even less to build if they hadnt had to knock various walls down that had been put in the wrong place or the foreman wasn't such a knob. It was that job that pushed JCK to go back to doing groundworks etc rather than actual building works.

Talking of JCK big Jim seems to have traded the big Rangie in for Jap pickup, times must be hard!

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1 minute ago, Rog said:

What I meant was the provision of care homes.  Why your government doesn't private such things and leave it to the private sector makes no sense to me.  Same with transport, and things that the private sector can deliver so much better and at lower cost leaving you hopelessly bloated government to govern and not act as landlord, transport provider, utility provider etc. It just makes no sense.  Privatisation has worked spectacularly well over here with very few problems.

Au contraire, privatisation has been a disaster. Wages and care levels down. Profits extracted for owners and providers of finance. 

The only way most private operators make money is hidden government subsidy, or cutting service delivery levels, whether that’s rail franchises, homes, or probation. And PFI has been hideously expensive and most are poorly maintained. Another huge public cost when they start getting handed back.

Yes, it’s a lot of money. It’ll be borrowed, it’s a capital project. It’ll stimulate the economy, provide employment. Keynesian economics just like they’re doing in UK.

And it’s not just en-suite bedrooms, it’s specialised bathrooms, social areas, dining areas. And some, like in one at Ramsey, with bungalows or units in the grounds for the not so elderly with special care and supervision needs. Yes, they come at cost. But is it right to put paraplegics in 20’s, 30’s etc in with 80 year olds, or EMI, or people with early onset vascular dementia aged 40 or 50 alongside 70 & 80 year olds, or leaving them in Manannan Court?

We have a few youngsters, teens, 20’s whose health needs, physical or mental, end up with them being sent to specialist educational and residential placements in England. When they transit from adolescent to adult services don’t they deserve somewhere at home, on island, without that being a bed at Manannan Court ( which is an acute unit )?

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12 minutes ago, finlo said:

Talking of JCK big Jim seems to have traded the big Rangie in for Jap pickup, times must be hard!

Oh well we can't have that, give them the prom wall to do or some other big unnecessary project to sort that out immediately.

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2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Au contraire, privatisation has been a disaster. Wages and care levels down. Profits extracted for owners and providers of finance. 

The only way most private operators make money is hidden government subsidy, or cutting service delivery levels, whether that’s rail franchises, homes, or probation. And PFI has been hideously expensive and most are poorly maintained. Another huge public cost when they start getting handed back.

Yes, it’s a lot of money. It’ll be borrowed, it’s a capital project. It’ll stimulate the economy, provide employment. Keynesian economics just like they’re doing in UK.

And it’s not just en-suite bedrooms, it’s specialised bathrooms, social areas, dining areas. And some, like in one at Ramsey, with bungalows or units in the grounds for the not so elderly with special care and supervision needs. Yes, they come at cost. But is it right to put paraplegics in 20’s, 30’s etc in with 80 year olds, or EMI, or people with early onset vascular dementia aged 40 or 50 alongside 70 & 80 year olds, or leaving them in Manannan Court?

We have a few youngsters, teens, 20’s whose health needs, physical or mental, end up with them being sent to specialist educational and residential placements in England. When they transit from adolescent to adult services don’t they deserve somewhere at home, on island, without that being a bed at Manannan Court ( which is an acute unit )?

You touch on an awful lot there and I agree with you on most of it.

PFI for hospitals in the UK was the worst scheme that ever saw the light of day. Not only because it handed profits to international capital houses paid for by the taxpayer, but because it wasn't even efficient in getting the job done. We only have to look at the debacle of the Royal Liverpool for a prime example. The UK has seen the light on this and is bringing it all back in house. There is also a recognition that there needs to be a resurgence in "half way" accommodation between home and hospital and hospital and nursing home/death. I think it's a pity that the new government there has been blown off course by the pandemic, because I believe a lot of people would have been surprised by how much they were prepared for state intervention to drive the economy henceforth. The Island really has no option to follow the trend as the demand is only going to increase. Obviously it has to be a publicly funded endeavour.

Another UK disaster was private equity moving into the care home sector and asset stripping the best homes. It was another Steam Packet, Woolworths, Manchester United PLC (there was a lot of it about) type leveraged buy out, whereby these characters bought the homes in groups and loaded the groups with unsustainable debt. They then changed hands several times building up more debt - just like the SPCo. Often they were split into property companies and care providing companies, the former charging rent to the latter. Those debt burdened businesses would be sold on again to separate buyers to maximise the profit. By the time the businesses got into trouble and couldn't pay the rents, the architects of the disaster were off into the sunset with the booty. The companies left holding the parcel were soon struggling to survive and we had the unedifying spectacle of homes going bust and residents of advanced age and frailty being shipped out. Quite shocking: 

Ownership: We cannot know, because the ultimate parents are all carefully stashed in Tax Havens. Four Seasons, in common with many private equity-owned firms, has a byzantine corporate structure. It is split into nearly 200 corporate entities, including some based in the Channel Islands and the Cayman Islands, making it almost impossible to thoroughly examine its finances.

https://www.wikipolitiks.org/wiki/Four_Seasons_Health_Care

https://www.ft.com/content/952317a6-36c1-11ea-a6d3-9a26f8c3cba4

I think that there is a possibility of a "third sector" solution for care homes, similar to housing associations.  Then, the remaining private concerns would have to compete with reasonable pricing or close. Unfortunately, the Island is probably too small for such a solution, but it is worth a look.

UK Rail, I have mixed feelings. The labyrinthine structure is a nonsense; it's a lawyers' paradise and, there is a lot of unnecessary complexity in the non-vertically integrated system. However, there have been major initiatives taken in innovative service patterns that would never have seen the light of day under BR, and that is a good thing. Undoubtedly, a lot of money has been spent by the taxpayer, but a huge amount of renewal has been done to infrastructure, enhancement of capacity, new rolling stock, reopened routes, more intensive services and the rest. There has been overbidding on franchises and collapses of operators, but that was due to the design of the model. The parent companies are not really coining it from rail as evidenced by a lot of them taking a step back from the latest bidding round. The margins are wafer thin and the risks are enormous.

Another problem that gives me pause for thought with growing the public sector across the economy is once more submitting to the tender mercies of the trade unions. Hardly benign organisations and that holds good in the Isle of Man too.

 

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From what I understand, the guy who owns Abbotswood offered to sell it to the Gov for £6m, fully refurbished and handed over. Thats 62 bedrooms...

No idea what this Gov are up to. They don't exactly have a good track record in doing this now, c'mon.

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Well when I compare the state of the UK pre privatisation and today I am convinced that the improvements and efficiency that we have could NEVER have been achieved had it not taken place. Wage bills reduced, overstaffing reduced, efficiency hugely improved, all in all "leaner and meaner". 

Thatcher got it right.

Anyway non of my business, thankfully I'm well insulated from the financial train smash coming down the line for the island.

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