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Quayle’s Border Force


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Most probably it'll have more to do with preventing EU citizens using the Common Travel Area open border with the Irish Republic from gaining illegal entry to the UK after BREXIT transition period ends. The existing situation simply cannot continue after that. We (UK) will ensure that there are no back doors left open in our border security and with the Irish Republic being still in the EU and with the EU freedom of movement the CTA must end - and it will.

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33 minutes ago, John Wright said:

We had a Port’s police force. Too expensive. We got rid of that and employed a private security firm.

We have immigration staff. They deal with flights from outside the CTA. 

We live in a common travel area. 95%+ of all flights, and boats originate within the CTA. There are a few flights to Geneva, Denmark, Cyprus.

The border force cannot be about Covid. Unless HQ knows something we don’t, namely that it’s going to continue for ever.

So what is it about? We don’t have our own nationality, we don’t really have a border, apart from states of emergency we can’t keep people out. Are we looking at scanning photo ID info and tying it into PNC or other data bases? Is there any data ( not gut feeling ) that actually identifies a problem with criminals coming and going.

Or is it just the state saying we need this info, we must have this info, no idea what it’ll achieve, but info is power, and lots of new computers and scanners. The state being inquisitive and wanting to have a hold.

And let’s not have any of the “Ive done nothing wrong, I don’t mind” comments. The IoM and UK has not had internal travel controls apart from war time or Northern Ireland. What crisis is there now. Why should the state want to know how many times I fly, or sail, what for. Why should I have to tell them. ( I’m aware that they can piece it together from CC usage, ANPR, etc. )

Travelling to the IoM is no different to crossInbox county lines by rail or internal plane travel, or from one end of the M6 to the other, in reality. 

So what is the rationale? More important what is the costs benefit analysis or SWOT analysis? What will it cost. Why is it urgent.

 

I completely agree with your above concerns. This smacks of state collation of peoples movement history which I personally find uncomfortable and unnecessary, but what really worries me is that it seems to be getting rushed through with minimal scrutiny. You are right in that the authorities can already track a persons movements, however you would have to be a person of real concern (as it should be) as the data is held by many different organisations and it’s collation is currently time consuming and bureaucratic. I hazard a guess that althougn this is currently driven by short/medium term virus tracking restrictions, its long term objective is to tackle organised crime, for example, drug dealing, and also tax avoidance by monitoring residency limits. If this is the case, the reasons need to be stated and transparent. 

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There’s no specific residency limit to be tax resident here.

Its how long you end up somewhere else that may end up with the somewhere else deeming you tax resident there. So it can’t be that.

It isn’t needed for Covid tracking. Are you saying arrivals can’t be trusted to read the leaflet and then self isolate for 14 days with a couple of doorsteppings. Current system works well enough, but at low volumes. How many border force officers are we intending having?

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1 hour ago, Rog said:

Most probably it'll have more to do with preventing EU citizens using the Common Travel Area open border with the Irish Republic from gaining illegal entry to the UK after BREXIT transition period ends. The existing situation simply cannot continue after that. We (UK) will ensure that there are no back doors left open in our border security and with the Irish Republic being still in the EU and with the EU freedom of movement the CTA must end - and it will.

But Ireland isn’t in the Schengen area. If Ireland continues to have broadly similar entry restrictions as UK and scans and shares incoming passports and UK has three month in 6 EU visa waiver in place. 

Remember, throughout the EU the right to establish and work are limited. If you stay permanently ( more than 3 months ) you’re supposed to register as resident. Just UK never bothered. 

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4 minutes ago, John Wright said:

There’s no specific residency limit to be tax resident here.

Its how long you end up somewhere else that may end up with the somewhere else deeming you tax resident there. So it can’t be that.

It isn’t needed for Covid tracking. Are you saying arrivals can’t be trusted to read the leaflet and then self isolate for 14 days with a couple of doorsteppings. Current system works well enough, but at low volumes. How many border force officers are we intending having?

The HMRC and EU tax authorities I am sure would love to know how long residents are off island. I am talking about collation to share with other jurisdictions such as UK.

Covid, we currently do not know what restrictions they will want to introduce. I agree that the current system works.

The fact we are having to speculate is indication enough that more details need to be released to the people that are going to be monitored.

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6 minutes ago, gettafa said:

I know people who push the residency timings to the limit and I have wondered about the tax implications.

Aye, the border restrictions could cost them a few bob. 

They won't starve though.

There are many people who most would consider normal, who could inadvertently get caught up with residency rules, not just the super rich. Also remember that the rules are created and therefore adjusted by others, so could be easily changed with consequences for island residents, whom may ultimately relocate, taking their local spend, local investments, and local businesses with them. Even if you are not really comcerned about the ‘wealthy’, surely you would not want outside jurisdictions having even more ability to affect the island than they currently do. I know I don’t.

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5 minutes ago, John Wright said:

But Ireland isn’t in the Schengen area. If Ireland continues to have broadly similar entry restrictions as UK and scans and shares incoming passports and UK has three month in 6 EU visa waiver in place. 

Remember, throughout the EU the right to establish and work are limited. If you stay permanently ( more than 3 months ) you’re supposed to register as resident. Just UK never bothered. 

I'm well aware that The Irish Republic is not within the Schengen area but all that really means is that there's no border checks and for those EU states that also are not in the Schengen at most it's usually a cursary glance at one's passport, often not even that.

But come Freedom Day when the unwanted and unneeded Transition period ends we (UK) want secure borders and no foreigners entering OUR nation without our permission and that is part of what BREXIT is about. There has to be an international border in place policed by our border force on ALL entrance routes into OUR nation.  

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1 minute ago, Rog said:

But come Freedom Day when the unwanted and unneeded Transition period ends we (UK) want secure borders and no foreigners entering OUR nation without our permission and that is part of what BREXIT is about. There has to be an international border in place policed by our border force on ALL entrance routes into OUR nation.  

So you pay for it then.

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Just now, TheTeapot said:

So you pay for it then.

No doubt the UK will.  However while the island has open borders with Eire it WILL mean that travellers from the island will have to have some form of passport to visit the UK.  There will have to be.

 

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9 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

There are many people who most would consider normal, who could inadvertently get caught up with residency rules, not just the super rich. 

Apologies. I was thinking specifically, but I realise how this can affect anyone.

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2 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

The HMRC and EU tax authorities I am sure would love to know how long residents are off island. I am talking about collation to share with other jurisdictions such as UK.

I’m not sure. How do they know where you are after leaving IoM and UK? There’s no checks as you go from one Schengen country to another. They don’t need to know how long you’re here, but how long you are in the country claiming you’re tax resident

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18 minutes ago, Rog said:

I'm well aware that The Irish Republic is not within the Schengen area but all that really means is that there's no border checks and for those EU states that also are not in the Schengen at most it's usually a cursary glance at one's passport, often not even that.

But come Freedom Day when the unwanted and unneeded Transition period ends we (UK) want secure borders and no foreigners entering OUR nation without our permission and that is part of what BREXIT is about. There has to be an international border in place policed by our border force on ALL entrance routes into OUR nation.  

You’re really sad and ill if you believe any of that.

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